The Winding Path of Self-Discovery and Spirituality through Ibn al-Arabi: A Conversation with Dr. Saliha Farid Abdel Khalik

What happens when a quest for meaning and purpose intersects with growing up in a politically charged environment? Join us as we converse with Dr. Saliha Farid Abdel Khalik, an inspiring philosopher and spiritual coach hailing from Egypt who now lives in Malaysia. Her intriguing journey of self-discovery and spirituality amidst political unrest is truly eye-opening, and her exploration of various religions and philosophies paints a vivid picture of spiritual resilience.

In this episode, we delve into the depths of Saliha's transformative experiences studying the teachings of Ibn al-Arabi during her Ph.D., as she highlights the lessons of diving deep into the Sufi path. We discuss the crucial nuances between the psychological and spiritual realms and how creating a healing space for religious and childhood trauma can foster growth and self-knowledge. Saliha also talks about her explorations into Hindu and Buddhist philosophies, her connection to yoga, and her eclectic and rich path of healing through many different modalities.

In the final stretch, we explore the power of relaxation and trust as potent tools for healing, growth, and spiritual transformation. Saliha enlightens us about the teachings of Ibn al-Arabi, emphasizing the role of understanding and embodying divine names. We wrap up with her inspiring message about the simplicity of the spiritual path and how to navigate it with trust, surrender, and relaxation. This episode is sure to leave you feeling uplifted, with a deeper understanding of the importance of shedding self-images and projections to truly know oneself. 

Find Saliha online: https://www.hyleconsciousness.com/ and listen to her music here: https://sali.hearnow.com/

Transcript

Rose: 0:21

I'm Dr Rose Aslan and I'm a transformational life coach, breathwork teacher and scholar of religion who supports helpers, rebels, misfits, marginalized and spiritual and spiritually curious folks. Welcome to , R with Rose, where I create a bold space of warmth, understanding and pluralism in a world that often feels chaotic, polarized and judgmental. You are not alone, and the stories I share here will reinforce this. Each episode will delve into inspiring stories, practical tips and thought-provoking and heartfelt conversations with thought leaders, healers, coaches, mental health professionals and other individuals who are part of the quiet revolution of women healing around the world. So join me on this podcast exploration, as we explore what happens when we allow compassion into our lives, one story at a time.

Rose: 1:46

Today, we're joined by a wonderful guest all the way in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Dr. Saliha Abdel Khalik. She is passionate about philosophy, self-knowledge, actualization, spirituality and music. She has a PhD in Islamic studies from the University of Exeter in the UK and she is currently running her own online existential life coaching business. She is currently studying various modalities of therapy and is creating music. So welcome to a, it's wonderful to have you here.

Rose: 2:24

Thank you Rose , thank you for having me So wonderful And I wanted to share with the listeners how we met, because it's a really interesting and random way. I think it was three years ago, perhaps more than three years ago. I remember it was in the winter of 2021, in the early part of 2021, when I was about to become a life coach, but I hadn't become one yet And I wanted to see who else is out there doing this from a Muslim perspective. So I went on LinkedIn searching for various key words of Muslim life coach and whatever else Sufism, other terms and you were like the only person who came up. No one else in LinkedIn seemed to have identified as a Muslim life coach or these people who I resonate with you were the only one.

Rose: 3:08

And then I remember I reached out to you in LinkedIn, which I'm not a big active user of LinkedIn, but I reached out to you.

Rose: 3:14

You responded. I remember speaking to you about your experience coaching and we had just a nice connection And we might have connected another time after that. But what is even more amazing and an act of synchronicity is that shortly after that, you said, okay, i'm moving to Istanbul. And I was like, wow, that's amazing Because we had this beautiful connection when we spoke and then you moved to Istanbul at the end of that year, if I believe correctly, and it was wonderful that we had you for about a year in Istanbul And it was so great to spend time with you and to get to know you and have you as a sister in Istanbul. Unfortunately, you left to Kuala Lumpur fortunately for you in Kuala Lumpur, But because of technology we can still connect And you were one of the very first women I wanted to reach out to and let others hear your stories. So I'm really excited for this, your story, to go out there, for people to hear how someone like you navigate spirituality, healing, sufism, islam.

Saliha: 4:13

Thank you, Rose, for the introduction. Yes, it was a very interesting way of meeting, because I'm also not very active on LinkedIn, so that was very random and we ended up living also quite close to each other in this way, so it was amazing also to have you there.

Rose: 4:28

Exactly, and Istanbul does attract a lot of women on the healing path. So it was really beautiful that we could connect in that way and with other women in this path, and also gave a couple of sessions in our Rahma Circle Healing Circle for women on Ibn-al-Arabi, on Fasting and Worship, and everyone was completely blown away by the knowledge and depth of embodied approach you offered to Ibn-al-Arabi and understanding Islamic rituals. So I still, when I think of those sessions, i'm still like it chills down my back from how amazing it was to study Ibn-al-Arabi with you specifically. So let's go back to when you were younger and can you remember, perhaps when you're a child or young woman, when you first started getting interested in spirituality and healing and if they came together or separately in your life?

Saliha: 5:19

I think I've always been quite inclined to spirituality. I grew up in a Muslim household that was introduced already to like religion and practice at a very young age. But I was also very attracted to it. I think It came very naturally somehow And there was always a longing.

Saliha: 5:36

I felt I had a longing since I was a child. It was something in me And because the environment I grew up in was more politicised, it wasn't very spiritual, it wasn't more concerned with maybe the outward practices and spiritualism and very culture, i felt that something was missing and that kind of prompted me to on my spiritual past or like to look further because of that thirst, something to quench that spiritual thirst. So I started looking. I think when I was quite young I was very interested in questions of explaining why we're here and searching for meaning. So I also ended up studying philosophy at a university. It was about longing, but I think my spiritual quest also already started when I was in my teenage years. I was looking for something, but that wasn't a child anymore, but I think I was already inclined as a child?

Rose: 6:22

It's not often, and a lot of young people live their lives in normal ways. But why do you think you're motivated to explore the meaning of life, the purpose of life and the essential issues when you're still young?

Saliha: 6:35

I think it was something internal, like I felt, as I said, like a longing, something tugging at my soul, like it was like I couldn't rest. So I felt like I had no choice. Because of this restlessness inside, this yearning, this searching, that led me to start reading different, also religions, because I was like, okay, maybe you know, maybe Islam isn't for me, maybe, like, how do we know, this is the truth. So I started questioning a lot of things because the environment didn't really provide much spirituality, like very basic spiritual. I think that drove me to read into other religions And I got really interested in Hinduism, started even reading the Bhagavad Gita when I was very young maybe 19 years old and into yoga.

Saliha: 7:13

During high school I found this random book on a bookshelf And it was on a Lebanese man who was in a wheelchair until he started practicing yoga And I was like really blown by this story And it was a real story. So I started practicing yoga and I got into yoga and then I started reading the scriptures, like Hindu scriptures, and then during university I came across an introduction to Sufism class. I think I felt like, wow, i found like the perspective on life that resonates to me the most. But I still couldn't.

Saliha: 7:42

I don't know how to access it Right. So I just I was looking, so I just I kept on looking Beautiful?

Rose: 7:48

And how would you describe the spiritual path you're on now if you had to give it words, which often is difficult to give this indescribable path words. But how would you make an attempt at that?

Saliha: 8:01

I think the spiritual path is really like a self-inquiry path, right, it's the journey to get to know yourself and your relationship to the existence. existence, divine, the divine I think they're actually separate, but so I'd say I'm on a journey of self-knowledge and I don't think it ends at any point. So that's how my spiritual journey is, which a journey of presence.

Rose: 8:23

I'd say, and would you say it's rooted in Islam? Are you influenced by other spiritual traditions? How do you find structure and meaning in your specific path?

Saliha: 8:32

I'd definitely say it's rooted in Islam. I'm practicing Muslim, i'm very inclined to Sufism, so I would say it's more or less a Sufi paradigm that I have described. I view the world through myself, through the divine, and I like the word that you use structure because I think that's very important Because of also my background and my journey. Obviously I don't know if it's obvious, but I was also attracted to new age spirituality. I wanted to explore it. But I think often that lacks also the structure and the rootedness of traditional religion And that's why I find it very important to actually root yourself, because traditional means just only that was tried for so many years, so someone has already gone down this path so many times.

Saliha: 9:15

For that it's tried and tested for me to invent the wheel. Something sometimes wants to, or has to know it. I think it's not necessarily to go. Sometimes it is a go away, but sometimes it's also. Maybe this isn't working for me, so let me think about it. I also think that the structure of consciousness is shared by all human beings. Traditional religious gives you like a tried and tested method. It doesn't need to be, obviously, and why not?

Rose: 9:42

I love your approach and understanding of tradition and a really positive light, because for many Muslims who are a little disillusioned by Islam and various Muslim movements, tradition has turned into quite a negative word. So I just love that as a tradition is something, that it's a path that people have gone before you that you can learn from. How do you navigate that of some parts of tradition might not serve you or be suitable for you? And then how do you navigate between the tradition that is helpful and inspiring and parts of tradition that actually aren't?

Saliha: 10:15

So just to say something also on that, i think this point so religion for, like it, just for is like a container, right?

Saliha: 10:21

So it's like navigating the container, because there's God and then there's religion as the way to God, even though we're in distance, but we experience that anyway. It's a very good question you asked, and I think I suffered from that for a very long time as well myself making sense of religion. That's what we're on And like that quest that makes sense of religion, especially if you're born into one sense, you want to make it yours. It has experiential, and I think the things I struggle with I start to see now as, okay, i haven't really understood this yet, maybe it will come at some point And I can just be in conversation with this awkward aspect that I'm not comfortable with, and it doesn't have to be resolved today or tomorrow, in five years, because that is the journey is to reconcile yourself. I'm not automatically reconciled because of whatever, mizaj , my constitution or my personality or my upbringing or my trauma. So I see it also as a journey of reconciliation, because religion is nothing.

Rose: 11:21

So as in, if we say I'm not reconciled with religion, i objectify religion And it no longer is religion anymore, because religion is not a thing, it's not a tangible thing, mashallah, it sounds like you've really released a lot of some people might say anger or resentment around things that may have harmed you in the past, and I've noticed that when people are on this healing path, their relation to things that are harmful is very different And that there's some things that just don't serve us And there's other things that we just don't understand and that eventually will. I just love to hear your approach, because I know it's a lot of Muslims who are disillusioned, have a really difficult time grappling with even reading the Quran or approaching Hadith, for example, and they don't know how to make sense of things that appear immediately misogynistic, for example. How do you do that? I'm curious, because so many Muslims I know literally have to stay away if they want to remain on this path or interpret them in radically different ways.

Saliha: 12:20

It's not been easy to say this. It's been a very long process And of course, i guess, triggered still. But it's important to see that your psychological state and, for a spiritual stage, very long. So if I'm emotionally charged because that means that something is not resolved, that has nothing to do with what I'm trying to do. If I'm trying to read the Quran, i feel so triggered and a lot of things are coming up through me. There's nothing to do with the Quran, there's nothing to do with my past, my triggers, my conditioning, whatever I went through. So that's very important is to see the emotional life, the psychological life and in relation to the spiritual life and how it often gets in.

Saliha: 13:00

This differentiation is very important. I think it took me a very long time to understand that. Maybe I didn't have problems with this one, but I had a lot of problems with my upbringing or the history or the cultural environment in Egypt where I grew up. In is to differentiate, or even my own personal issues with this, to be able to differentiate between the psychological realm and the spiritual realm and the relationship between them. So creating that distance is very important. And then the other thing is to start on that psychological healing journey, because it's very important, because it affects everything, like the glasses which you, everything scratch or distorted and everything It's right.

Rose: 13:45

What you said speaks so strongly to me, because I'm also a really big advocate for mental health and for Muslims learning to heal themselves, not just from religious and spiritual trauma, but also just from childhood trauma and whatever else troubles them in their lives. So I really appreciate you saying this. It's not just about religion. We need something much more beyond religion to work through and to find a more healing, centered approach to religion and spirituality. So I just love that you mentioned that and that's why we were kindred souls. Saliha, because I know that you're an expert Ibn-al-Arabi and I've benefited from your embodied teachings o f . could you briefly share what was it like to do a PhD, as you and, as they call in the US or in UK, a thesis? in the US we call it a dissertation. What was it like to complete your thesis on such an intense spiritual figure and tell us a little bit about how you bring embodied teachings into your life or into your teachings and work supporting others?

Saliha: 14:47

Thank you for that question. It was life changing. I'm not exaggerating by saying that actually There's something very magical that happens when you're in contact with the teachings of Ibn-Laribi. reading of the Arabic The kind of state that puts you in the kind of state that you have to strive for in order to access such a dense, deep text is very transformative for me. As we were talking about maybe being triggered by certain aspects of religion or not fully reconciled, and I felt that through reading of Arabic I was reconciled to so many things because he was very deep, cosmological, ontological paradigm that I think that's my tendency anyway is to view the world through these lenses, and I think he offered me something so out of the box that it's so refreshing and it needs so much sense.

Saliha: 15:35

I think, after also being reading reading exposed and Buddhist philosophies of non-duality Hindu HinduBuddhist Hindu Hindu philosophies philosophies Buddhist Buddhist Buddhist Buddhist Buddhist Buddhist Buddhist Buddhist t t and to be in the Arabic and his paradigm, it was very incredibly refreshing, very original, really resonable. But it wasn't an easy journey either. I think it immediately , a lot of tears and a lot of fretting over the text and a lot of self-reflection and state spiritual states. I think I really got into the kinds of spiritual states reading the texts And I thought that I had to be very centered in so many ways and very present with myself and present with God in order to really understand the same beautiful journey. I think the PhD was more of a personal journey than maybe a typical journey, for me.

Rose: 16:22

Can you give us a very short example of something that you said was pivotal in life changing for you and his teachings? that was fresh And how did that change your perspective?

Saliha: 16:32

I think, his accounts on the esoteric meaning, the inner meanings of prayer and fasting. Those were questions that were never answered for me. I used to ask obviously around as well, but I was never given a satisfactory answer. So I've always also struggled with fasting. I practiced, so I used to fast every Ramadan. Something wasn't really aligned. It wasn't t t t implicking It was just very difficult physically for me and then it just put me in this frustrated mental state or psychological state. So Ramadan was this heavy thing. I would read it, i would be like I don't know if I can do this every single year. I did it from the Rila, but it was very heavy and I re-struggled it. But then when I started reading Ibn al-Arabi, i made that intention. I God like, a , god, make this abala also a little bit like the ritual practice easier for me and give me the knowledge to understand why we're doing what we're akind kind person. Because I'm also kind of personally who really struggles to do things that they don't know the meaning asking the bell word to reject that. So it's not great obviously in terms of spiritual practice to have also that aspect of your personality, but it can also be a drive to seek knowledge.

Saliha: 17:41

When I started reading in the Futuhat, the Meccan revelations, the chapter, i was writing already a chapter on that, so I started reading that chapter. The Futuhat al-Makkiyya on fasting and how fasting was a manifestation of certain divine name. Just giving me this like onto-call a biological perspective on a ritual practice and seeing how we're embodying the divine names through it was just I don't know, something just happened. I felt like it was a huge blessing, alhamdulillah, and it was after this Ramadan, that particular Ramadan, when I was reading and writing that chapter on fasting, that relations started to happen at a very deep level. Alhamdulillah, that was very transformative. And so today, alhamdulillah, Ramadan is very different for me now.

Rose: 18:25

Yeah, that's amazing. Thank you for sharing, and it's really interesting to hear how someone who's a little bit rebellious, who rejects things unless you really truly understand them, found meaning through the deep teachings of , and I'm looking forward to the time when you'll be making more of his teachings accessible to people, because he is a little bit difficult for a lot of people to access at this time, so I'm looking forward to that opportunity with you. a, i know that currently you're studying some healing modalities and you've studied quite a few in the past. I love to hear about which ones you studied, which ones you've tried as and you've received from others, which ones resonate the most with you, which ones did you integrate? which ones did you just let go from your life?

Rose: 19:06

Yeah, I know that's a big question, but you can think of the main ones that really have had a big impact on you.

Saliha: 19:13

So I'll start with what I've tried, Because when I realized that my spiritual state was affected by my psychology, it was like a lot of great honesty. I had to tend to that psychology. just to be closer to God is because you can't be close to God if you're not close to yourself. You aren't yourself. You're too many veils in between. I don't know if I can share in a chronological order, but I'll tell you, whatever comes to homeopathy, I think I serve homeopathy and I tried talk therapy.

Saliha: 19:38

so in psychotherapy, Chinese medicine, acupuncture, somatic therapy at some point I think they all served and I think I saw the power of also psychotherapy and releasing emotions, of telling a story and have someone compassionate, non-judgmental, offer, safe space and continue to feel seen, recognized and valued. I offer you that space to let go. also, I feel that you can't, unless it's through a spiritual practice. then you take quantum need. It's just possible, but I don't think that happens as often. That's why we need to take the stairs. For me it was like taking the stairs through the generalities. I think talk therapy and somatic therapy were very powerful. They all were and are, but I think they're very subtle. I think Chinese medicine and homeopathy are very subtle, so it's very difficult.

Rose: 20:32

I don't want to say measure, but maybe in talk therapy.

Saliha: 20:35

it's more a little bit in the sense you can see also the effects of that That inspired me also to go on that path to well-being psychology and study.

Saliha: 20:44

I did life coaching as part of a counseling degree, which I i end ended up finishing because COVID. COVID. code. So I got certified as a life coach and that was quite powerful as well. I didn't take life coaching seriously until I studied myself. I was always like, what is that exactly? I think I didn't have respect for it because I didn't know what that was. Until I studied I saw also how powerful it was to undergo this journey myself and then offer this to others.

Saliha: 21:08

For me, That inspired me to study further, so I'm currently studying different modalities as part of talk therapy. Which modalities So? dialectical behavioural therapy, cognitive behavioural therapy and all kinds. There's the course that I'm in right now. It's a different one out there every single month And I started this course G, a , who I'm passionate about. That's more trauma focused how to sit with someone who's been exposed to trauma and helps us through self-knowledge And it's almost like self-release right, you're releasing yourself.

Rose: 21:43

Yeah, you've been on this long adventure, it seems, and journey of discovering and trying out things and finding what works for you. Are there practices or modalities that you use in your everyday life? What's in your toolkit for supporting yourself, for keeping your nervous system regulated?

Saliha: 21:59

Movement is very important, so I studied yoga and I certified yoga y y yoga yoga yoga. So practicing yoga is very important because it's not just a body thing. it takes into consideration that you have a mind and a soul, so it's very holistic And it involves meditation and breathing exercise. The discovery of meditation for me is very powerful as well. So being with the names of gods is very powerful. And doing sports for me, sports is very I don't think tennis or swimming, so just keeping yourself moving I think it helps your emotions to move, thoughts to move and everything. So it takes you out of this stagnant state.

Rose: 22:44

I'm also all about the body and being embodied, So I love that you brought up the spiritual practices, things like yoga, but also tennis. You wouldn't think of it as a healing sport, but any kind of movement really is good for us and helps us get out of the stagnant sedentary context often we're settled into. So I'm so glad you brought up just the things that people don't often think about as part of the healing journey.

Saliha: 23:06

I think sports also bring you to presence and think what's healing. It doesn't matter what you're doing. Things are easier to get into the zone. I don't think about anything, it's just people and the other persons, but everything else vanishes. It's a mini-annihilation experience. You don't have a sense of self. I'm not a woman or a man. I'm not Muslim anymore. I'm not ever like my age. I have no history. When I'm just out of sports, it's very liberating actually to be present. I think whatever brings you to this moment of presence, it's just you being there with God.

Rose: 23:43

I need fana and tennis. This sounds like the start of something in your memoir. maybe I love it. You and I and many people in the similar field, talk about this healing path, healing journey. How would you define it, just in general, for someone who's curious about it?

Saliha: 23:57

I think it's to share the authentic layers of yourself so that you get to the core of yourself. For me. That is healing. It's to become yourself. The healing comes from my fullness. You become whole. You become whole, you become full yourself.

Rose: 24:13

Yeah, and how do you define spirituality? Can you tell us an academic background? I love to hear how people define words that everyone's throwing around these days, but we all define them very differently. What does spirituality mean to you? actually, we've spoken about it, but how would you describe it to someone else?

Saliha: 24:28

That's a difficult question, i think, because we often just reduce things without using names. It's a more, i guess, like spirit-focused living or spirit-focused consciousness, god-consciousness. So how do you? spirituality maybe is the way for you to be God-conscious in your everyday life. Beautiful.

Rose: 24:45

And could I ask you about Sufism, because I know that you're really inspired in your life through Sufism and the teachings of Sufi teachers. Could you tell us how that plays out in your life, how that helps you walk this path?

Saliha: 24:56

I think the sense of community finding like-minded you see the world and God and themselves and their place in the universe is similar. So I think this community is very important, not to walk the path on your own. The thing that gives me support the most You don't have to do it alone And it's also difficult with other people, but it makes it just slightly, a little bit more comparable to companionship. I think that's the biggest blessing for me on this path is to have like-minded people walk with me and then to have teachers who've also got the same process and are there to help you, lend a helping hand, guide you.

Rose: 25:33

Beautiful Thank you, and, as we wrap up, i would love to know what proso-wism you would like to share with people listening to this episode. Is there like one deep lesson that you have learned and has really sunk into your being that has served you well on this path of healing and growth?

Saliha: 25:52

I think that relaxation is very important. God in the Quran tells about the self-due. at least it's a part of the peace of itself, and you can't really know God or navigate the world and have an objective. I think So if you're in every system, it's wired up. So I think that was a big lesson as well. You're closer to the truth when you are i .

Rose: 26:21

That just shivers down me when you said that last sentence.

Saliha: 26:26

That would be like something to share with people. It's just obviously within the framework of divinity and consciousness, vision or whatever. Yeah.

Rose: 26:35

Regulate your nervous system so that you can enjoy things that might seem difficult or they might be beautiful but sometimes inaccessible. But first the body and the nervous system quiet the mind.

Saliha: 26:47

How do you also see things as they are, because we were maybe full circle, going back to the difficulties when we're triggered, how do we approach even scriptures of religion or spiritual practices As you calm yourself down as a habit, as to know that you're far from your truth actually, when you are wired up, when you're triggered. So don't make judgments as a nest, because you're not yourself. So being yourself is very important, as long as I don't mean to be able to suffer. The other thing big lesson is from the Na'arabi is that there is no truth. Save God. I think that this paradigm makes things just put things into perspective for me, because whatever happens is also the decree of God. There is no door except God. So it helps you to surrender and it helps you let go. You just do your part and then you just relax again. So I think surrendering and relaxing they come together. Oh, i love that. Surrendering, relaxing, trusting, they all come together.

Rose: 27:50

That's what I'm reaching, relax and trust. Yes, it sounds so easy, right. Yet why is it so hard?

Saliha: 27:57

Same time. Yeah, it's also histories, i think, because we all come from histories and then we misidentify ourselves as well because we mistake our mind for the self. I think that's because the path which is on the path is sort of the mind of the self-images that we entertain, who are projected on us. So kind of removing that or just stealing the mind, stealing just being in your center, but then you can really know yourself. N God.

Rose: 28:25

Yeah a , it's been amazing to have you here and I'm sure the other people listening are really going to feel inspired and uplifted and just. we We always need these reminders and you just gave us so many good reminders about the simplicity of this path and how we can navigate it in community and with really simple concepts like trust, surrender, relaxation, so I'm really grateful to you for coming on and sharing your story with others. S, Jazakum Allahu , is This This was wonderful.

Rose: 29:01

Are you looking for help bringing more compassion into your life and letting yourself out of the box and into the real you? I'd love to support you on your journey. Check out my one-in-one and group coaching offers and sign up for my mailing list to receive updates about my offers. Follow me on Instagram and Facebook under @dr r. r. lan coaching or m y compassionflow. com.