Reading the Body to See the Soul: A Conversation with Dr. Rosina-Fawzia Al-Rawi

Ever felt an unquenchable thirst for understanding the greater purpose of existence? Ever wondered how to navigate life's challenging terrains with the compass of spirituality?

In this episode, we venture into the realm of embodied spirituality with the guidance of our esteemed guest, Dr. Rosina-Fawzia Al-Rawi. From her fascinating journey that meandered through Iraq, Lebanon, Egypt, the Emirates, and Palestine to Austria, Dr. Al-Rawi's insights are a refreshing look at the depth of Islamic spirituality from a women-centered lens. 

Come listen to a conversation about the mystical realms of Islam, the importance of honoring oneself as a Divine creation, and the potency of gratitude.

Transcript

Dr. Rose Aslan: 0:01

Okay, welcome, dr Rosina Fawzia Al-Rawi. It's such a pleasure to have you on Rahma with Rose and thank you for joining me today.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 0:13

It's a pleasure. Thank you for inviting me.

Dr. Rose Aslan: 0:16

Yes, thank you. So I'd love to start from the very beginning. Could you tell me a little bit about how you grew up, your childhood, where you grew up? I think you have a very interesting life on many different countries, so maybe just give us a little glimpse, if you may, into how you grew up.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 0:34

But I was born in Baghdad. My mother is Austrian, my father is Iraqi and we lived in Iraq. So I was born there and then after, I think with the age of eight, we went to Lebanon. So I grew up in Lebanon and then from Lebanon I came to Austria and from Austria I lived a while in Egypt and in the Emirates and in Palestine. So these are the countries I lived in. I grew up. My family is not a religious family, it's more how should I say? I wouldn't say a rebellious family, but it's not a religious family. And but yes, the yearning in me started very early, but I didn't have any resonance in my family, so it was a lonely path of searching. And then one day, yes, when you start searching, what do you? As we say, you know what? You can't find the things through searching. But if you don't search, you can't find them. So in that sense, this yearning made me search for, in a way, for the reason of existence.

Dr. Rose Aslan: 1:53

So could you tell me a little bit more about that? How did you start getting this resonance of spirituality? What, how old were you? What was happening in your life? How did you come to it originally?

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 2:05

Around the age of 10, I started feeling like a fire in the chest and that couldn't, you know, calm down. And I used to ask my mother what can I do? I feel like a fire in the chest and she would tell me go and drink a glass of water. So I understood that she couldn't help me there. So we had a very nice lady that would come to the house and she was, I remember she was Egyptian and she was very, very religious lady, and so I started fasting Ramadan with her and opening up more to that path.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 2:48

And then there was a period in the youth. You know, in the youth you are rebellious, you don't, you don't want to embed yourself in anything. So there was a period of my life where I was not much interested in anything spiritual. But it came them back again. You know, this yearning, as there was a young child, came then back later again and I knew that I had to follow it. So this is what I did. So I started searching and finding groups of that would come together and pray and make zikr together, and through one of these groups I knew that they had a sheikh. So I had two dreams about a sheikh and I went to them and asked them do you know? Because I could describe him? And they said, yes, that's my share. So I called him and then came to visit him and I wanted to stay for 12 days and I stayed 12 years.

Dr. Rose Aslan: 4:00

And.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 4:00

I was like how old were you at?

Dr. Rose Aslan: 4:01

this time, and what was that experience like?

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 4:06

And I was 25. I guess, yeah, around 25. And yes, it was a decision, you know, to, to, to. I couldn't do anything else but but follow that call and and so I went there and and I really stayed for 12 years, yes, and I was shocked by my parents.

Dr. Rose Aslan: 4:28

And what were you doing in this community? What was going on?

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 4:37

Well, what you're doing, what you do, is actually to, to, to, to get to know your, your, your nefs more and to get to know your character more, and to. It's like being put into the fire to be purified. So it's not an easy path. At the beginning, it's not something that is pleasant or not always pleasant, and so I always had in my mind, a packed bag behind the door Whenever I had the feeling it's too much, but at the same time I knew I couldn't go. Yeah, they were very intensive 12 years, and then I also married the son of the chef. So it was, I was in the house there and got my children there, and then, after 12 years, we came to Austria. That's where I'm living now, and because of the circumstances, the political circumstances in Jerusalem, and yes, and so I became a teacher here. I travel around and all over the world and and teach them the, the mystical path of Islam, or the path of compassion and mercy of Islam. It's a school.

Dr. Rose Aslan: 6:04

Can you tell us a little bit more about when you say it was? There was very hard parts. A lot of people listening to this podcast might not know what you mean. There was hard parts of exploring the ego of your character. Could you give us a little bit of idea what that feels or looks like in practicality?

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 6:21

When, when we are born, our soul comes into the body and part of the soul is separated and is connected to the free will. This is what Allah has given us. He has given us a free will to choose. And so we are born into a family, into a culture, and we are socialized and, with time, we identify ourselves with that part that is connected to our free will, to our mind and to our senses, and we forget the true self that we are and we develop methods of how we think we are secure and can survive, and these methods are often connected to characteristics that are not always positive. You know, because it's it's me.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 7:14

I want to protect myself, I want to fulfill my wishes, I want to take away from others if necessary for my own survival and security, and one identifies oneself with this busyness of surviving in this world that you forget your true part, the one that is connected with eternity, that is connected with Allah, and a spiritual path is to remind you. That's why you say the car. The car is remembering and reminding yourself of your true self and why you are here. What is the meaning of your existence? It's actually answering or finding answers to the essential questions of existence. Where do I come from? Why am I here? Where do I go to? And, yes, I think spirituality is essential for us human beings.

Dr. Rose Aslan: 8:23

So what I'm hearing is that when you're on this path of knowing yourself, sometimes you come up to yourself and it's not always comfortable.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 8:32

Yes, in this confrontation.

Dr. Rose Aslan: 8:34

Who wants to confront their own ego Right.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 8:37

Yes, you do it out of at the end, out of love for Allah, so you, you transform. You actually thank Allah for the negative qualities that he has given you, so that you, you are willing for your love for him to transform them and come closer to him by that.

Dr. Rose Aslan: 8:58

Beautiful, beautiful. So I first got to know you through the English translation, I think, of your German work. In English is called the call of Allah, a companion to the Holy month of Ramadan. That came out in English and I remember getting a copy of it before Ramadan because I was like this looks like the book I need from a dawn and it was covered. So most of us were home and having a very unsocial Ramadan. That was very inwards. And when I connected with your book, it was. It was such a different way of connecting with Ramadan than other teachers, than other scholars out there talking about Ramadan and how we should practice Ramadan. It was much more deeply healing book rather than just about ritual and dogma. So what I learned about this book is that you are also teaching about this healing path in parallel with the spiritual path. I'd love to hear more about that, and you mentioned your school as well.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 9:53

If you can share more about that, well, when we, when we slowly and gently surrender more and more, because before surrendering we have to give up things and giving up is never easy for us human beings, but it is the first part of the path so that then your will can surrender to Allah's will and you are guided by Him. And that's a not easy process, because we have expectations, we think how things should be, and if they're not there as we hope they will be, we are angry or sad or frustrated or fearful. So this is healing means that I become whole in myself. I'm embedded in the, in my surrounding, in my culture, in my society, wherever I am, and I am embedded in something that is greater than me. So healing means that I don't think I am a separated being from, from all that exists, but to understand that I am part of something that is greater than me and that we are like fields that affect each other. And in that understanding of growing over oneself, I start transforming, as I said, some characteristic forms of myself. So I grow from the eye that is separated from everything else to the you, and then from the you to the we. And to be embedded into existence, to have a sense of the meaning of life is healing, and for that you need trust and you need love in order to be able to, to look at the parts in you that you would like to overlook. And by by being in that process of feeling yourself, you also want to feel the guidance of Allah. And that means the more you are interested, if I may say so, on in your happiness, but also in the happiness of the ones around you, the more you expand and the more you are not the center of the world anymore and you understand that there's only one true center, and by looking at the flower and seeing and being connected to it, the flower also becomes your center. So you have thousands of centers and this expansion is is an awareness, is a consciousness, and through our consciousness we connect the ego with the soul and that we start to heal.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 13:20

So there are many different tools for healing. Some people are healed through a deep conversation, some people are healed through fasting, some people are healed through different technical methods, but at the end, what is asked is not, I would say, like in psychology, that you look at the lamp and is it standing well? Is the cable okay? You look, is the lamp connected to the source of light. So at the end, that's the process of healing to connect the lamp again with the source of light. And the globe of the light of the lamp is always the heart. So it is. It is a matter of expanding the heart and making it a loving heart that can carry and give an expression to the mercy of Allah in this world.

Dr. Rose Aslan: 14:21

That's deeply profound, thalzia, because often in the Western context that we're both living in, when we talk about healing and spirituality is often very individualistic. But we are talking about something much more profound, and that it's individual because we can only work on ourselves, but it's also communal and that we can't just heal without any other, and, in terms of our relationship with others, we also have to think about how, what's the conditions of others around this? And what is?

Dr. Rose Aslan: 14:45

their state, are we supporting them as best as we can? I'd love to hear you talk more about that and the distinction between this Western healing approach, psychological approach, new age approach and the approach that you're offering from your spiritual Islamic path.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 15:05

And in the spiritual Islamic path it is. The essential thing is that when I feel separated, if I don't feel part of existence, of creation, this is what brings up illnesses. This is what brings up, for example, depression, that I have the feeling I cannot feed and the world is not able to feed me. That's, in a sense, of depression. So what? The thing that we look at is where did you start with a separation? Where did you start with the illusion of separation? That might be in young age, that might be in youth, but somewhere it starts, and usually it starts with the first wound. And the first wound is, if I may say so, when we come as a child to this world. We are always a gift for the world. Allah sends with every human being, a gift to creation. And if a child is not seen as that gift, because usually it brings something that is lacking in the family, and if it, for example, let's say, it comes into a very strict family, it can be a very joyful, sweet child, but it is not seen in its value. It is not seen actually because what is asked in this family is, for example, success and seriousness, so the child feels that the gift that it has brought is not valuable, it has no value, it cannot be seen. So it tries to change so that it is accepted by its family. And this change, of denying one's true nature, is called the first wound. And this wound is, so to speak, the basis, the basic for separation, because it's not only that I have the feeling that what I bring is not precious, but it is also the feeling that I am not loved by Allah. So I start separating myself. And to heal that again is essential, so that we accept all parts, because we cannot say, okay, these are parts are beautiful, these are negative. No, if you want to become one and holistic, then you have to say all parts are given by Allah. That means they have a reason why I'm being given, why I have the quality of envy or I have the quality of jealousy or whatever. How can I integrate it? How can I transform them that they are to be used in the appropriate way. So that's the healing process.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 18:25

And the body is, so to speak, the outer form that shows us what is going on with the soul. So if I have backache, up or down, or to the left or to the right, or if my arm is hurting, or my teeth are hurting or my eyesight is getting weaker. So we read the body in order to see what the soul needs, meaning what divine names. For example, what kind of? Does it need a retreat, or does it need to go more into nature too fast, or to make more movements? So all these things are then connected. And is somebody living alone, is living in the family, living in a city? All these parts play a role, and by that we understand that we are part, we are a drop in the ocean, and if that drop opens, then the whole ocean can reflect itself in that drop, and that's what we then call the universal human being.

Dr. Rose Aslan: 19:42

Well, I'm so moved by what you're sharing, Fallazia. This is absolutely profound to hear about your focus and resonance with the idea of the mind and body being connected, because I find that among many Muslim scholars and teachers, they often neglect and ignore the body.

Dr. Rose Aslan: 20:00

But, you mentioned that we must read the body to understand also how that's connected with the soul and what the soul needs. How do you support people on their path of learning to read their body, because this is something I find deeply valuable in my life is learning to read the body. I'd love to learn and hear about, and if you can share with others, what that means to you and how do you do that? How do you teach others to read their body and connect the two together on their path?

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 20:26

Well, one of the most important things on the path is to honor and respect oneself, and I would even say love oneself, because if Allah has put his breath into us, that means we're carrying something very, very precious in us. And it's true that we have layers on that which are not always nice. You know, when I get angry or when I get envious I say, well, this part I can't really love. But we are precious beings, we are actually. Our big body is the universe and we are the soul of that universe. So to have that understanding to oneself, to accept oneself as we are, because this is what Allah has given us. Maybe I would like to have bigger eyes or longer legs or whatever. I'm not completely happy with what I am, but to accept what I am is one of the main processes. And to also accept not only what I carry inside but my outer form, because it is the vessel that is carrying everything. It is carrying my soul, it is carrying my heart, it is carrying my mind. So it is, it needs to be respected and to treat, to be treated in a respected way and to be thankful. One of the most important things is not to take things as granted, that I can see, that I can move, that I can smell, that I can hear. This is such a great gift. We only you know. You say, the ones who are not ill carry a crown on their head. Only the ill ones can see it. So we take so many things as granted which are not granted. So if somebody complains about their not so nice feet, look at the ones who have no feet. That's what it means with thankfulness. So thankfulness is one of the most important things. And the other thing is to have someone that accepts you completely as you are. And this is what a spiritual teacher does To give you a mirror of accepting you completely as you are. This is the basic, because only then can trust and love be developed, and then you are willing to do things, if I may say so, you would otherwise not do. Because we are only formed. We become beautiful when we love, because then we want to show our beauty. So if there's somebody who loves you the way you are and says welcome. This is one of the basic things.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 23:22

And then, it is true, one has to be more sensitive to one's body to feel oh, now my right shoulder is hurting. What can that mean to me. You don't have to go to a book and look through, but to close one's eyes and breathe deeply and see what is this pain trying to tell me, to say, even if you want to say I love you pain, I see you and I listen to what you want to tell me, this makes you more sensitive to your body and you start reading yourself. That's why the Quran starts with ikrah read and ikrah means also to be able to distinguish, and the Quran is called for Qan. It teaches us to distinguish, to learn to read the signs of Allah, the traces of Allah in everything. So this is the basic of healing.

Dr. Rose Aslan: 24:26

Thank you for sharing that. I think it's really important for people to find one or two or more people who fully accept them. I think it's very rare in this dunya, in this material world, where people actually accept all of your parts. Right, people accept parts of it, but they don't want to know all of it, so it's a unique experience to be fully accepted. Now you mentioned some of the tools you mentioned using the names of Allah, of God. You mentioned some various practices. Could you tell me more about that and for you particularly, what's in your toolkit? I like to ask people what's in your toolkit? What do you use with yourself and with others whenever you're in a challenging situation, for your own edification, but also when you're going through something difficult, what do you use?

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 25:15

Well, I personally work a lot with the Divine Names and, if I can explain what it means, just to give an understanding, we have to work with symbols or talk with symbols. If I say Allah is an all-encompassing, merciful ocean, out of this ocean flow 99 rivers. Every river has a different taste of love and mercy and has a different capacity of helping us to become whole, to fall into love and let love carry us back home, because we are born out of love and it is through love that we find back home. Allah has created this world to remind us of our true home, which is Paradise. We are, so to speak, programmed for Paradise and if we use that world as a reminder of home, then it becomes our friend. But it can also be a distractor of home. We can be very busy here and forget home and the purpose of our existence.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 26:41

So the Divine Names are names. Each one of it are, so to speak, a river out of that one ocean that helps us of how to come back home and how to heal ourselves. One of the most important things that Islam has given us is the embedding into the universe and the movement of the universe. Through prayers, we are five times embedded into the movement of the universe, having the sun and the moon as the closest planets to as an orientation, and it is, if I may say so, like a car that goes to the station to fill up. We go with the prayers to fill our hearts with light, to surrender to Allah, to also say for a moment, to step out of the world. That's what Wadu is. This is stepping out of the world. So Wadu is separation.

Dr. Rose Aslan: 27:42

And the ablutions of the Bata.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 27:44

Ablution, yes, yes, ablution is a separation from the world and Salah, which means connection. We usually translate it with prayer, but it is connection so that we can connect with Allah, we can connect with our deeper existence. This is one of the most important things the five times prayers, and what is also important is to have the prayers and the meditation on Fajr time and to have them in the night.

Dr. Rose Aslan: 28:20

Fajr being the pre-dawn prayers.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 28:22

Yes, the pre-dawn prayers and the night prayers. So there are two points where I retreat and go into a deeper dialogue with my true self and, in that sense, definitely with Allah. So these are pillars that help you to form the mind, which is the free will, and to widen it, to let it surrender and to give it the understanding that not everything is in our hands. On the contrary, we don't even know what's going to happen tomorrow. So actually we, as human beings, we run through the world with closed eyes, but in our trust in Allah, our heart opens and the eye of the heart opens and we can see beyond the obvious. And that gives us contentment.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 29:22

Contentment and the capacity to accept whatever life gives us, whatever Allah gives us, and to deal with it in the best possible form and to grow through that. Because Allah wants us to experience life, and life is not only sunshine but it is also rain, and it is sometimes easy, but often, or most of the time, is not easy. But in that movement of life, if I can surrender to Allah, then I can accept, and then I can learn from everything, from the silly neighbor as well as from my dear friend, from the tree I'm looking at or from the ant. Everything becomes a teaching, a capacity, a possibility for me to grow, to expand and to fall into the arms of Allah.

Dr. Rose Aslan: 30:20

Can I ask you? You mentioned some various Islamic rituals in such a evocative and exquisite way. It just really kind of set the scene for very intimate conversations with God in these rituals. Sometimes, actually quite often lately, I've been speaking with Muslims who feel very distanced from Islamic ritual. Often they might have some trauma associated with how they are taught to perform prayer, for example, and some people find they've often told me that they can't bring themselves to pray because they feel impure, because they're not praying, so then they can't pray and there's this unneeded cycle of not being able to get back to it. It's also just very difficult in general for people in this modern world to keep up their rituals. So I'd love to hear from you what would you tell these people who struggle with ritual for all these different reasons, plus many more I haven't mentioned. How do you recommend they approach Islamic ritual? They want to, but it's very difficult. What's your advice to them?

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 31:21

Well, I understand that it's very difficult. To pray five times a day is not easy, and one has to overcome tiredness, maybe laziness, maybe also the feeling, oh, I'm not feeling anything. Why should I do it? You know, I feel more when I go and sit in the park. So these are very normal feelings that we have and it is true when there is something we have to overcome, as you said, some people, let's say because they think they're not pure enough, and others, they are, let's say, too tired and life takes too much time of them. But if I understand that when I pray it is actually for me to be nourished, allah does not need our prayers. It is us who need it, it is us who, when we take a bit of time.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 32:20

And these movements of the prayers are not movements that are just done like that. They are movements If you really give yourself the chance to enter into them. You enter into a gentle form of trance when you do the movements and, for example, to understand more and more what prayers is. When we stand up straight, we are symbolizing humanity, all of humanity, and when we bow, we enter into the world of animals. And when we go down with our head, we are into the world of plants, and when we sit, we are in the world of minerals. So we are embedding ourselves in the universe and, in the same time, drinking consciously from the light that is everywhere and all of existence, because Allah is imminent and transcendent at the same time. So, if I understand that I'm actually doing something good to myself and that Allah is mercy, whatever, even if you have killed 99 people, you can always turn to Allah, and he is always the forgiving, and he has said that he has put his mercy and love before his anger. So to understand, that is we say in Arabic we are living in nafasur Rahman, we are living in the merciful, loving breath of Allah. So whenever we inhale, we are actually inhaling that mercy. And so why should we then be cruel to us?

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 34:08

I mean, to be constantly sad about the past and fearful about the future takes you away from being in the moment. Only in the moment you can change something. Only in the moment can you present, be present in Allah and have a dialogue with Him, not a constant dialogue with your head inside, with yourself, with the ideals you have of yourself. To give up one's ideals is to give up the sunams and to truly then go to what Allah has given us. This is a process which is not easy, but it is nourishing, and the religion should be helpful in achieving our goals and it should be lived in a way that it nourishes us and that I can ask.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 34:59

Why should I pray, why should I fast, why should I go to Hajj, why should I give zakah? These are essential questions to be answered. I can't just do them like that. I do understand my parents. If they're Muslims, they're Muslims, but if I'm born into a Muslim family, I have to taste Islam to become a Muslim. It's not automatic. Everyone has to build up an intimate connection to Allah, a very intimate, private one, and then out of that connection can I then see the connection in others.

Dr. Rose Aslan: 35:49

I think it'll be useful for others to hear who also struggle with Islamic ritual. What about practices outside of the Islamic framework? I believe that you also bring in other bodily, somatic practices, especially for people who might not necessarily be Muslim, or for Muslims who need a little gentleness from not necessarily in the Islamic framework. What tools do you offer those people?

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 36:20

Every tool that is done consciously and you know why you're doing it is a good tool. That means if I know where I'm standing and what my aim is, then everything nourishes me in that path and I also can nourish others. That means if, for example, I say, okay, I go to the fitness studio because I want to be healthy and I want to have energy for my work or whatever. But if I also say I go to the fitness because I know, if I have vitality in my body, it's much easier for me to sit down and go deeper into my breathing, into my reflection, into my contemplation. These are things the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam told us. You know contemplate, reflect at the end of the day, see how did you behave, and the parts that are not so nice, say Astaghfirullah to them. The parts where you behave beautifully, say Alhamdulillah. And the parts where you don't know why was it right to not say Subhanallah, open space, but keep yourself in the ocean of mercy when you're saying that. Keep yourself in the ocean of Allahu Akbar, because Allah is greater than all your imaginations and your way of thinking and seeing things, and in that I can grow and I can accept myself and I can say oh yes, that was not so nice. How can I reflect on that? So, whatever you do, if you do it consciously and you know why you're doing it, then it is helpful on your part and then it is a part of your healing. And what is medicine for one can be poisoned for the other. So also this you know uniqueness of everyone, and Allah has given us a framework of things we should not do. We should not kill, we should not steal, we should not lie, at least try not to lie. So all these things, allah has given us the rules of what to do. But if you go jogging or you go to a fitness center or you go to a theater, to understand also the nature of human beings, art helps us so much in understanding ourselves and others and respecting them.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 38:58

Islam is a culture of ambiguity, of multiplicity. It has become in the last 100 years a culture of only one is right and everything else is wrong, and it's essential. It has. Islam is not singular, it's a plural, lived in every place, and an American Muslim lives it with a little different taste than somebody in Lebanon or Saudi Arabian. And to learn from each other, we don't have to be afraid of each other. We can learn from each other, even from other cultures. Even if I go and listen to the wisdom of the of the Buddhists, for example, why not learn? Expand does not everything come from Allah but also understand the framework, because we have been given a frame. In that frame stay, but how you connect and how you bring things together. We have a very vast and beautiful Islam.

Dr. Rose Aslan: 40:01

Thank you. How do you recommend or advise Muslims who seek to explore the world and all this beauty with this framework? How do they know when they've gone outside or how do they know if they've transgressed it or not?

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 40:17

for people who are on this path, Travel is one of the most important ways of getting to know oneself, because every nation you visit shows you another part of freedom and you are in a different context and that's why you can see yourself differently. So traveling and meeting other people is one of the important things to do in life. And to also see the beauty of this world, because if I see the beauty of the world, then I also want to protect it, because we have responsibility towards nature as we have responsibility towards ourselves. To see the framework. Well, there you need.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 41:09

We have the Quran as the one that tells us, and we have the sunnah that tells us where, what is appropriate or not, and there are many things that are very clear and other things that are grayish. The grayish parts are always dangerous in a way. Try to stay with the clear parts and try not to enter into the grayish parts, generally speaking, and try not to make little things big and big things small, because we often tend to do that. And, yes, we are in a world that is taking away all our values. Everything is relative, and if everything becomes relative, what is then true? So for that we need religion, but we need a spiritual religion, because religion without spirituality is dangerous, but life without spirituality is also dangerous, very generally speaking. So, if you are somebody who does not believe, if you're an atheist, there's also some ethical forms that we all need, we need to have. We need a capacity to live in peace, to have a pure water to drink, we need education, we need a working place All these things. We need a good environment. This is something we all need as human beings, and every human being prefers to be treated kindly than being treated rude. So we have basic things that we have with everyone in life. But, as a Muslim, I want to come closer to Allah, so there are specific rules that I need to follow to come closer, because the nafs has a tendency to find excuses.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 43:19

But if we, for example, there's a situation and there comes a spontaneous answer that comes from the deep, in one second it is there, and then, after it comes, the nafs, for example I, you come in the morning and I didn't sleep well, and you, you, you, you greet me and I'm very grumpy to you Deep down. I know that's not correct, but the nafs says well, you know you didn't sleep well. They should understand that they were also once grumpy. Why? So? It's okay be grumpy. If we become sensitive, for more conscious of our thoughts and more conscious of our body, being sensitive to the body then we realize when the first impulse of light comes, because we are deep, loving, peaceful, kind beings. In our essence we human beings are such kind beings. But when we come into danger, when we have the feeling we have to protect ourselves, when we have the feeling we're not getting enough, when we have the feeling the world is a danger, then we become we can become very lower than animals in our behavior. Yes.

Dr. Rose Aslan: 44:47

Yes, all very true and thank you for sharing. I think this will be of use for people who are on this path but questioning and don't quite know where they fit. Thank you. One more question when you in your life could you maybe perhaps talk about one difficult circumstance you've been through, one different experience you face in your life, and what was it and how did you work through it?

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 45:14

Well, I went in my. I'm an old lady by now, so I have lived a lot, many years on this world.

Dr. Rose Aslan: 45:21

Yeah, so if you, wouldn't mind giving us one example, because I think a lot of people are listening. They go through difficulties and we don't always know the best direction, so be inspirational to hear how you've worked through one of your challenges.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 45:33

Well, for example, I once had a situation with a friend and we had a quarrel, or misunderstanding if you want, and this friend of mine went and told everybody in a way that it was my fault. So she put the picture in a way that I was the one who was doing the wrong things and she was the victim. And it was not true in that sense. First of all, whenever two are involved, one always knows that you know both parts play a role, but in that she played the bigger role and that was a fact, and so my, my reputation was really affected by you know what people were saying, because due to what she was saying and I knew I did not have the there would not be any sense in me trying to explain and to change that.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 46:38

So the only thing I said to myself is Allah, you know how the situation is, you know how I behaved and I know I cannot show it to the human beings, but you know and this is for me essential that you know what I did in that situation, and if you see that I have behaved myself well, then give me the thankfulness for that in either here or in the thereafter, because I cannot change the outer situation and many years later the situation came out and it was clarified. So having that trust and knowing that Allah sees everything, and that having that patience gave me a deep understanding of one does not always have to defend. Yes, there are situations where one has to defend, but there are also situations when you can't to turn to Allah and say you are my Wakil, you are the one, atawakkalu alayhi, you are the one I rely upon, you are the one who is just, you are the Haqq, you are the all embracing reality. So, in that sense, sometimes it's important to act and sometimes it's important to be in the quality of patience.

Dr. Rose Aslan: 48:09

Yeah, beautiful life lesson. Thank you for sharing. As we wrap up, I'd love to ask you to share with the listeners what are some pros and whiz, and you'd like to leave them with some things that you've learned from over the duration of your life that you think others would benefit from hearing.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 48:27

Well, I think one of the most important things in life is to understand that I cannot always control what will happen, or at least almost never control what happens, what is going to happen, what is going to come. But what I can do is to look how am I reacting, how am I dealing with what is coming? And if I see everything that is coming as a gift and gifts from Allah are not always easy gifts, many of them are challenges. But if I say Allah has given me this gift so that I can grow, and that Allah never gives me more than I can carry, like you call me for Allah, and I say Allah was a haqq, he doesn't give you more than you can carry.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 49:16

If I add things by saying, oh, I'm a victim and so on and so on, yes, then I make it even heavier. But if I don't say, oh, what is Allah doing to me? But if I say what is Allah doing through me, Then I become embedded. Then I say if I stand up for the rights of women, for example, because they're not treated, I'm not only doing it for myself. If I stand up in my family for my right, I'm doing it for all women, because it goes into the collective. If I understand life like that, then I can have much more courage, I can have vastness, I can work globally, understand things globally and work regionally. And this understanding is important for us to make the world more beautiful than it was when we came.

Dr. Rose Aslan: 50:19

Thank you for sharing. It's been an honor to have you here. If people want to find you online, Falsia, or if they want to access your books, where's the best place to learn more about you and your teachings, your school, your publications?

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 50:33

We have a website called House of Peace and there are programs there. Yeah, I think that's it. And the books you can get over internet normally.

Dr. Rose Aslan: 50:51

Wonderful and I'll include that in the show notes so people want to find that they can check out the show notes too. Well, it's been an absolute pleasure, Falsia, to have you on Rahmah Throse. Thank you so much for coming and joining me today.

Dr. Fauzia-Rosina al-Rawi: 51:02

Thank you, rahmah Rose. It was wonderful talking to you. It's always a pleasure talking to such a beautiful human being, masha'allah, thank you, thank you.