On Being a Professional Muslim: Rose Aslan Interviewed on "I'm a Muslim (And That's OK!)" Podcast

In this episode, Rose candidly converses with Shehla Faiza on her podcast, I'm a Muslim (And That's OK!), sharing her experiences as a "professional Muslim" in the U.S. and why she eventually left that role. Rose discussed the challenges and pressures she faced while representing Islam in academia and interfaith activism, particularly during the Trump era. She also discusses her decision to relocate to Istanbul and shift away from academia. This time, Rose is the guest being interviewed instead of the host, and she offers a deep dive into the complexities of public representation of Islam in the United States. Rose gives props to those continuing the hard but necessary work while also realizing that her time in that field had come to an end, at least in her former roles.

Watch this episode on Youtube on Shehla’s channel here.

Visit her website: https://www.imamuslimpodcast.com/

Follow her on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/imamuslimpodcast/

Transcript

Today's a little different. Instead of another one of my regular episodes interviewing other women, today I'm sharing an episode where I was a guest on another podcast. This podcast is called I'm a Muslim and that's okay. The host is Shehla Faiza, American Muslim, based in dallas, Texas, [00:02:00] where she interviews Muslim Americans about their experience and tries to educate her listeners about Muslims and Islam.
 So it was a perfect opportunity for me to talk about what my experience was as a professional Muslim. So In the past, before I became a life coach and moved to Istanbul, I was first of all, a graduate student of Islamic studies for many years, and then I was a professor of Islamic studies.
And during those years, I considered myself a professional Muslim. As a visible Muslim woman who wears a headscarf, and who was always talking about educating, writing, reading, teaching about Islam and other religions, I was a professional Muslim because that's what I did as part of my work and as part of my regular everyday life. Outside of my studies, outside of my work, I was also highly engaged in interfaith activism.
[00:03:00] I also did volunteer work in local Muslim communities, and I wrote articles and op eds about Islam in American newspapers. I would give quotes to journalists about ongoing events affecting American Muslims. So basically my whole life revolved around the topic of Islam and Muslims, especially within the context of the United States and media campaigns against Muslims, attacks of Islamophobia, and a lot of other issues facing Muslims in the U. S.
for seven years, I taught at a 
christian University, and I was one of the only Muslims. I was one of maybe two Muslim women who worked on campus. One was a staff member, the other was myself, and I was the Muslim on campus.
Every time there was a talk or topic, anytime anything was going on [00:04:00] about Islam, I was the person they would call to represent Islam and Muslims. So for many years, as an American Muslim. Who was first of all studying and getting my PhD and then who was teaching about religion and specifically Islam in the university context.
I became a professional Muslim. And so I wanted you to hear what are some of the life experiences that I've had that led me to where I am now. I saw it as my duty to spread awareness about Islam, to engage in anti- racism and anti Islamophobia activities because 
so I saw this as my calling, but at the same time I got burnt out, especially during the Trump era. So, You can listen to this episode and hear more about that. I'd love to hear how it lands with you........ [00:05:00] 
I'm A Muslim and that's okay presents gift of the gab, because everybody's got something to say.
Hi everyone. May peace be on you all. And welcome to another episode of I'm a Muslim and that's okay. And I am back with another gift of the gab and with a fellow podcaster, Dr. Rose Aslan. How are you? I'm doing great. Thank you, Shaila. It's wonderful to be here. Thank you for being my guest and you are a certified transformational life coach, an educator, academic, and a breather work facilitator, or breath work.
I don't know. It's okay. We breathe and we do breath work. Breath work. Okay. And, um. What? I mean, you're a [00:06:00] transformational life coach, uh, and a breathwork facilitator. First, tell me about that. I mean, I've heard of life coaches, but I, again, being as I am, I'm not sure what any of this means. Sure. Let me give you some translation to regular people speak.
So, well, first of all, until Like a year ago, I was actually a professor, associate professor of Islam and religion. So I had a very reputable job, you know, that lots of social capital and I quit it all. And a couple of years ago, while I was still employed, but I was still trying to figure things out on my.
sabbatical year. I just decided to try another calling. And my other calling was life coaching. Um, life coaching is, I'd say my work is still really connected to what I do. I've always been invested in religion, spirituality, studying it, teaching it, writing about it, thinking about it, talking about it.
That's my, that's my thing. And so it just turned out in doing it within the Academy wasn't the best fit, even though I just spent [00:07:00] more than 20 years invested in that space. Um, I moved over and now I. Do my thing with religion, spirituality, in the context of life coaching, really. So life coaching means I work with primarily, but not limited to, women, and mainly Muslim women.
Um, helping them to figure out what they want to do with their life. Um, how they can, if they feel stuck, if they're stuck in the grind, if they feel just stuck in their lives. I help them get unstuck. I help them really figure out who they are, what they want. Um, who are they beyond all the people pleasing beyond what everyone wants from them, what they actually want for themselves and what Allah wants from them versus just other people.
Um, so that's life coaching. And I get to do so many different things with different people depending on their needs. It's very different. Sometimes I help graduate students get through their dissertation if they don't have a good advisor. And sometimes I help women change careers or move countries. It really depends, um, on their needs.
And I also lead group programs as well. And then [00:08:00] breathwork is something that I recently got certified. I was in a 400 hour training program and basically Why I got so invested in it is because I've been on this healing path for a number of years Six years intentionally, you know really walking this path and that started when I was Preparing to leave my ex my now ex husband and I felt incredibly broken and I tried a lot of different healing modalities You know, I'm talking like everything I was in Los Angeles, right the land of everything like new agey spiritual And I just tried everything because I was just like felt so terrible and I needed to be fixed.
That's what I felt. And so I tried all kinds of things along the way. Um, in the process, I kept on going back to the breath, the breath, just learning how to breathe deeply with certain kinds of methods and techniques I found to be very practical because first of all, a lot of these fancy modalities, you need a lot of investment, you need special [00:09:00] supplies, you need a lot of money.
Once you learn how to do breath work, you need nothing. You just need a body. Everyone breathes every moment of the day, because if we didn't, we'd be dead. And so I just love how simple it is to learn breath work, but how much most people aren't aware of their breath on a regular basis, on a moment to moment basis.
So what I do is I can sit down with someone, I can diagnose their breathing, their breathing patterns. Um, very quickly I can notice if they have, um, incorrect, as we call it, breathing patterns that lead to inefficient use of their body, bodily functions, and their physiology, which could mean that they're really fatigued, they're not sleeping well, they have a lot of anxiety.
Sometimes it's a really quick fix, they just need to correct some way that they're breathing. Right, sometimes they're breathing, and a lot of people nowadays are breathing up here. Right. So if you're like breathing, you notice like your chest is heaving. You don't want to breathe like that actually you [00:10:00] probably heard a belly breathing diaphragmatic breathing.
So it's teaching people to breathe lower So I'm finding that he breath work is so practical what I like about it as an academic who's trained to To rely on peer reviewed research, there's a ton of peer reviewed research about the efficacy of breathwork, so I practice analytical woo. I love woo, but I like when it's backed up, you know, so breathwork is super backed up.
So it's not just like You can't like charging crystals. I've never seen evidence that it works. So I don't charge crystals. I have crystals I don't charge them. I know a lot of people who charge them. That seems like you're charging money to the crystal. I'm, sorry But i'm like i'm confused what does this mean like I don't exactly know, like, I just know that there's gatherings where people bring crystals and then they like all charge them.
I don't know exactly how it works because I just haven't participated in the spiritual practices. Again, [00:11:00] I've heard of it. It does sound weird. That's funny, right? Where you charge yourself with crystals or something. Right, right, right. Like, I have not seen peer reviewed research backing that up. But Breathwork is amazing.
My teacher, she is a is a medical doctor who then became a breathwork teacher. So she actually knows physiology anatomy really well. And so it was just, it was such an honor to learn with her because she's also giving us peer reviewed research and evidence as we're learning the practices with her. And so it's been a really powerful tool that I use within my coaching, within my work with people, as well as.
Everywhere, everyone in my life knows that I'm going to ask them about their breath, you know, before I even ask them to say, Oh yeah, I've been breathing. Like my breathing's a little off or yeah, I've been taking some deep breathing. My friends love to reassure me that like, I'm like, how are you? Like, don't worry.
I've been taking some deep breaths lately. No, but it's fantastic. What you do now, you know, it's helping people in so many different ways, like in their overall life [00:12:00] sphere. And as well, like your breath work does, you know, help internal balance for a lot of people, but that's not why I have you here.
That's very fascinating. Um, not exactly. Yeah. Yes. Um, so as you mentioned that you're an academic and like in your bio, you had said, said that you, you received your PhD in Islamic studies from the University of North Carolina and you have a master's in Arab and Islamic Civilizations at the American University in Cairo.
So why Rose? Why Dr. Rose? I mean, y'all got all the certifications of like schmancy teacher and you know. Schmancy. You've got all the fancy schmancy, uh, accreditation. So how and why is the switch, especially it's relevant in a discussion, especially when in the atmosphere, the global atmosphere that. Is right [00:13:00] now, uh, with the terrible atrocities that are occurring in Palestine, I think, um, and you had put it so aptly that you were once a professional Muslim and I have to sit there and think for a second.
I'm like, yes, I'm an unprofessional Muslim. But I mean, I don't think that's what you meant when you said that you were a professional Muslim. So if I had to start somewhere, I want you to help us sort of understand, what does it mean to be a professional Muslim in your prior career as an academic? Yeah, thank you.
That's a great question. I think as I describe it, I think Muslim listeners are going to start to recognize and they'll, they'll realize they know people who are professional Muslims. So professional Muslim, I'd say, is an identity, a function of some Muslims in the community within the U. S. and probably in Canada and other Western.
countries where Muslims were minority. And I'd say it started after 9 11. Now I was still in college when 9 11 happened. So I [00:14:00] didn't automatically become a professional Muslim when 9 11 happened. Um, but basically as a result of 9 11, there were very few people in the media in Hollywood at that time. Uh, who were up high and Muslim, right?
Nowadays, it's completely different. There's Muslims in all places and politics and the media and culture. It's amazing nowadays in 2023 compared to back in 2001. But because Muslims didn't have a big sphere of influence, even among the academics, there was a very small group of professors of Islam and even smaller of Muslim professors of Islam nowadays.
Wow. There's so many professors of Islam who are Muslim. First of all, when back then, it's a small handful. Um, And so what happened as a result of 9 11 is that we needed spokespeople for the Muslim American community and people stepped up. Uh, so when I interviewed recently on my podcast, Rahmat Rose, for example, was Idina Lekovic, who she used to work for, uh, MPAC, [00:15:00] Muslim Public Affairs Committee in Los Angeles.
And she started working for them. I guess it was very soon after 9 11, and she would basically be the face of Muslims in California condemning every attack happening, um, kind of representing the Muslim voice for about two decades, right? Um, so we have people who are in the media. Um, people who worked, you know, for MPAC, for CARE, uh, for ISNA, um, for all kinds of other organizations, as well as people you can think of someone like Wajahat Ali, for example, who I don't know how you classify him.
He's a professional Muslim, really. Uh, I don't know where he works right now. Um, but we can think of people who, when you turn on the TV and you expect to see a Muslim Talking head. That will be one of the professional Muslims. And so many of these people, we need them. Right. They are the ones who, uh, usually were born and raised in the U.
S. and presented a certain perspective to the [00:16:00] American audience. They're trying to show that Muslims are regular people who are American, just like them. We all know the script, right? That post 9 11. That's why your podcast is called I'm a Muslim. That's okay. Right? Like that's literally like the script of every Muslim post nine 11.
We get those questions from non Muslims and then we answer them. Right? So we all have the script except professional Muslims had to do it in a really public way, essentially. Um, so that's what a public Muslim is. And for me, um, I decided early on in my career to study Islam primarily just because I love studying religion, spirituality, and I love.
The Arabic language. So I spent a long time in Egypt studying and traditional as well as in the secular university context. And then I just realized I wanted to teach about the religion I'm studying. That's my religion is my chosen religion. I wasn't born and raised Muslim, but I felt called to teach it, especially to my people, Americans, right?
Um, and so I felt that watching, having grown up [00:17:00] as a young person in post 9 11, uh, well, first I was in Canada for undergraduate, even though I'm American, then I went to Egypt, but then I went back to the U. S. and watching post 9 11 America, um, and its attack on Muslims was really difficult. And I just felt it was like my calling at that point in time to Do my best in the university context and to get my degree.
So then I could teach about Islam and battle this, these misperceptions and fight Islamophobia in the classroom and in my various forms of interfaith activism. So that's kind of one of the biggest motivators for me getting all those fancy schmancy degrees. Right, right. And I mean, it's great to have the fancy schmancy degrees, but it's a huge responsibility.
Dr. Rose is that yeah, you've gotten your certifications from these really like great academic universities and you're teaching, uh, Islamic civilization and everything that comes with it, but it's [00:18:00] not the same as just Simply teaching. It's not like, like a physics professor is going to be questioned about his morality at any given point, because somebody doesn't, uh, agree with string theory or something of that sort.
Um, so, I mean, I think that's what people like, especially in your position, like walk us through it. Okay. Because you're not doing it anymore. And that is, that speaks to the fact that you had like this huge academic career. Which you mentioned that you just left behind because being a professional Muslim is ridiculously hard.
Please, walk us through that. Yeah, sure. So I, I guess I started when I was in my PhD program in North Carolina, and I think it started because, like, for example, I remember I started Jomaa prayer and we had Jomaa prayers at the hospital, which was really, the university hospital is very far away. So I found a Quaker friend's house really much closer to campus.
I was like, [00:19:00] and they were very friendly. They kept on going out of their way to be friendly to Muslims. So I asked them, can we hold Jomaa prayers there? And they let us for free. Right. And it was so beautiful. And from that place, I started to do more interfaith work. And I also was always organizing with the Muslims and I organized Juma khutbas and things like that.
And I was like, I think if I remember, I was a graduate advisor to the MSA and I would consult with them and kind of mentor some of the younger undergraduates. MSA students. So I was doing the mentoring of the young Muslims. And then at the same time, I started interfaith work. And there was a very small Muslim population in Chapel Hill where I was living at the time.
But, um, and there was an Islamic society, but it was a little bit Exclusive and wasn't women friendly. So I wasn't a big part of it and they didn't want to get involved in interfaith. So I ended up becoming like the Chapel Hill Muslim. I think that's how it started. I was a grad student, you know, but cause I felt my calling was to do this.
So there'd be, you know. [00:20:00] Jews, Christians, Buddhists, and I was the Muslim they would call up. Usually there was other, other than that, there was older, older Muslims, but I was the only one in my generation who was willing to show up. And I showed up a lot, you know, luckily it was a small town. It was easy to get around and I loved it.
It was so powerful to have these gatherings, especially in the South, where there was attacks, uh, on Muslims. Islamophobia was a real threat. North Carolina. I mean, I left the year before, um, you know, the, the killing of the three winners, you know. Um, so it was tense even before, you know, they were killed. So it was North Carolina.
Exactly. I mean, every time you're walking alone and there's like a pickup truck, um, slowly moving behind me, I'd get very scared, you know, um, or traveling around the South, you know, I would, we just quickly move through some places and not stop, you know. So that's where my professional Muslim career started, and then I moved across the country where I got my first [00:21:00] teaching job at the Cal, at California Lutheran University.
I was assistant professor of global Islam, as they called it, and I was the Muslim on campus. I was at a Christian, you know, liberal, mainline, Protestant, Christian university. Um, they hired me not only because they wanted a scholar of Islam, but But I think they liked that I was Muslim and a visible, outspoken Muslim.
And they liked that fact, you know, that they're, they're very liberal and they wanted representation. They knew there were some issues and they wanted to challenge it. They had no classes in Islam. You know, they, they had, um, were there any, I think I was the first Muslim faculty member, at least the first outspoken one, definitely the first hijabi on campus.
So it was a big burden of representation. Right. And at that time, I was fine with that burden of representation. You know, I've been. The Muslims, anytime there's anything going on, who do they call? There was something about Dr. Rose, you know, like it was, it was cool at times, you know, like, uh, they had Thursday chapel service, for [00:22:00] example, when I gave a couple sermons, for example, they also invited my Jewish, my seat colleagues to give sermons.
So they're very inclusive. Um, sometimes I'd have to do very awkward interfaith activities where they. Weren't as sensitive as they thought they were being, you know, and I would support people with, you know, religious sensitivity training and I just did everything, you know, and when you're a non, when you're on the tenure track, you do anything and everything because you're also hoping to get tenure and that's a six year process.
So you're like, yes, yes, yes. Right. Um, but I enjoyed it. I also got invitations, uh, in Los Angeles, I would, um, I joined synagogues for various activities. I gave sermons at, um, a couple of churches, Universalist, Unitarian church, and gave talks and workshops at various community events. And also I was involved in interfaith.
I remember just giving like, here, we need some random Muslim to give a prayer at some place. I was like, okay, I'll do it. You know, and going into organizing marches and at the local mosque [00:23:00] in my neighborhood, I was, um, what was I, I think I was on the interfaith. Committee or something and I helped them organize interfaith iftars and events, you know They had some really good events when I I was there with some of my friends.
Um So I was doing everything, you know, I was involved with the women's mosque of america Which obviously is not interfaith, but they appreciate having me as an academic scholar of islam as well. I think um, so I did a lot of stuff. I don't even know how I did it because I started my job when my son was eight months old.
So I'm like, when I start listing these things, I'm like, how did I do all that? Yeah, I don't know. Um, plus I was in an abusive marriage and I left that. So it all somehow happened. Uh, along the way, I also joined and got trained with American Muslim Civic Leadership Institute, which I'm. Perhaps you're familiar with Amicly, which was amazing because it's an organization based out of University of Southern California that basically helps, uh, connect [00:24:00] professional Muslims in a way, Muslim grassroots leaders around the U.
S. It helps them, um, gain, um, how, how would they put it? To become more present and powerful leaders to gain more confidence and things like that. And it was very powerful to be part of that organization. I'm still in touch with people from that organization. Um, so I did a lot during those years and it was, it was amazing.
Yeah. But again, Dr. Rose, um, why stop? Yeah, why stop? bang up job. I was doing great. I mean, you're representing us and you're being in all of these places. I was doing my work, you know. You're the room. It was very good for the ego, perhaps, you know. Oh yeah, man. It was great. Everybody loves Dr. Rose. I love, you know, I am Dr.
Rose, you know, it was great, like all that work and finally I could use the title. The only place I get to use title now is like on videos like this. So why did I No, but you're still the Dr. Rose, it's just that you're not the previous [00:25:00] Dr. Rose who was on the spot. In the spotlight. Yes. Why? Why? So you remember the days of the primary elections for the Republican candidate when Trump was one of the, one of the candidates in 2000.
Oh my God. What year was that? I don't remember. Like everything. That was like 2000, uh, like 2015. 15. Yeah. That, those years, I'm sure all Muslims remember it well. Like when we followed, like. The absurdity that was a Republican candidates and what they were debating about Islam and Muslims. It was like insane and then teaching this in the classroom.
And I also one of my favorite topic to teach is media analysis. Media bias analysis. So before the crazy thing about teaching Islam in the United States is first of all, what you're teaching is the main thesis. And my, my dear advisor for my PhD, Dr. Carl Ernst, um, you know, he has a book called, oh my God.
Follow Muhammad? I think it [00:26:00] is. I should know, right? I taught this book for many years. Oh my god, I hope that's the name of the book. Anyway, Carl Ornstein's big book on Islam. You can tell me later and we'll put that in the show notes. Yes, big book on Islam. It's a great book. Um, his thesis, because he wrote this, you know, after 9 11, is that he wants American students to realize that Muslims are human too.
Because Americans did not realize that we are also human. Um, and so when you teach Islam to American college students, you're literally trying to humanize Muslims to them and show, Look at Muslims also like fashion. We also like watching movies. We also like going to eat ice cream. Like, it's so sad. But I think all Muslims are like, yep, yep.
Right, and so that's, of course, we go a little bit deeper than that. But, um, so I, In the first part of all the classes I taught was media bias analysis and how the media is really biased and how it depicts Islam and we can't say Islam until we realize how the media has bombarding us our whole lives in the U.
S. against Muslims and dehumanizing [00:27:00] Muslims and Orientalism and imperialism and all that. That's like the premise of all my classes. So then we get to 2015 and those primaries. I'm like, Oh my God. And I had to teach through those years. And then I taught through four years of Trump and Oh my God. Like teaching Islam in a Christian university to.
Often majority white Christian classrooms was not easy. I can tell you that. If I was lucky, I had like one or two Muslim students. Um, quite a few students were sympathetic and engaging, but I had a lot of students I was like fighting against. I just felt like it was like a fight, you know? Um, and I put my heart and soul into it.
I know that I put too much of my heart and soul into it really. And that's why eventually I got burnt out. But teaching during those years of Trump, just like did something to me. Um, it's, it's really hard to explain. I think it did something to all of us. I mean, not just teaching, but living under. Not just teaching, but you know, in general.
Exactly. But [00:28:00] teaching it because I was also going through a lot of personal existential crisis, uh, having been with my. Husband and then leaving him and he, um, I had been with him for a long time. I had been going through some challenges with religion and spirituality and grappling with, um, the patriarchy, grappling with, um, spiritual and religious abuse in the context of my marriage and being in some Sufi communities that also included that.
So when you come to this intersection of experiencing religion, spiritual abuse in a marriage. Sometimes in other Muslim communities and then that happening and then having to teach all this it just started to feel wrong I can't really read it. It just like I was like, can I just be a botany teacher?
Can I just change like my topics and like teach about plants? I don't know I just made that up but like it felt too hard to teach Something that is so personal to me that is me, that my own identity, that I couldn't unravel where my personal beliefs and identity Kind of ended and where [00:29:00] my professional life started and I found after a while those getting really unhealthy essentially and so there's being the classroom saying and Muslims believe this and they say this I'm like I don't believe that anymore.
I'm struggling with that. Like, I don't want to teach Islamic law anymore because that sucks, you know, I'm just like, I don't want to have to answer those questions because I just want to tell my students that's a bunch of BS or whatever. And, you know, like, I'm just tired of being an apologist, really. And also the burden of representation.
I was just tired of representing all Muslims, two people, right. And I was like, I just want to be me. I don't actually want to have to represent. All these people and I don't represent them and I can't but there's too many people and I can only represent me. But I couldn't just say that, you know, I had to, despite I had to represent Islam to students not even wanting to, you know, in our previous discussion, you had said that, I mean, Obviously what you were going through was very real, but it was not unique [00:30:00] to you that there are many muslim academics who go through this burnout and Like you've talked to them.
Did they have similar experience? As you and i'm only speaking in the academic context not the personal life context but one of the reasons that they go from Professional Muslim being the face of all Muslims to be like, I can't do this anymore. Yeah. Well, just to clarify, when I talk about professional Muslims, I speak about academics, but people in any realm.
Um, so that a lot of people I've been in touch with aren't necessarily academics. Um, among Islamic studies professors who are Muslim, not many have left. I know a couple who are kind of planning to leave. Um, but I don't know many, I was like the first one who made a splash and like, and like very vocally, like quit, you know, I made a big, I put a big message on Facebook and I even wrote a letter last year, I think to, uh, the biggest Islamic say is LISTSERV in the U S and I was like, goodbye.
Uh, you know, that was [00:31:00] scary to write to a LISTSERV of like all the professors, all the scholars of Islam in the U S. But it's, it's not just, uh, academics, it's people in any realm. And yes, a lot of people are tired and are overwhelmed. And what's really interesting is that my journey ended me up, or I ended up in Istanbul where I've been living for nearly three years now.
Um, one of the reasons is because. You don't have to be, you don't have the burden of representation here anymore. You're just another person in the street, you know, and you don't have to defend Islam anymore. But yeah, that's the issue is a lot of Muslims find themselves burnt out who are professional Muslims because they don't want to represent.
entire group of people anymore. They just want to be themselves. This is what I found. And they want to be a nuanced person with all kinds of interests and hobbies, but they're boxed into this pigeonhole and they can't get out of it unless they completely quit. Plus, it's also very difficult. I've not worked in a non profit or anything, but I know that working in Muslim non profits is [00:32:00] especially hard.
They're often underpaid, overworked, sometimes pushed to do more things. Feasibility lie, you know, in the name, in the path of Allah for charity purposes. And they just can't keep up with the demands on them as well. Um, this is aside from regular burnout of, you know, being, for example, a parent and working a lot and just having normal, um, normal burnout, but it's such an added representation to be a Muslim in the limelight in the United States, trying to defend.
Muslims against countless, um, countless accusations that never seem to end. Right, right. And I think that's, what's integral about this entire conversation again. Especially in the context of how everything is unfolding now, there's a lot of Muslims out there that are then sitting here either arguing for defense of, you know, a people that are [00:33:00] Obviously being eradicated in Palestine and they have to fight accusations or, uh, of being anti Semitic.
It's the same thing because I can only imagine like if you were still doing what you did, how much of a burden it would have been on you. To have to answer all of these questions, like, do you bring out a statement, uh, for the Muslim people in Palestine or you do or you don't, you know, that's a, that's a very difficult situation to be under.
If you're still working for the Christian university, how would it have gone for you? Like if you did, then what if there have been a backlash to all of this? I just, just yesterday I was like, I'd seen like a sort of, um, a news post in the, in that Starbucks is suing its own union because they had sent out a message in support of Palestine.
So it like, especially in [00:34:00] times like these, everybody gets fired up and you know, you're, you. You and other professional Muslims are in the first line of target. Okay, she's well known She's she's the the face of all Muslims, you know They go after the professional Muslims first But it also trickles down to every one of us as you had said the reason why you moved to Turkey is Because now you don't have to answer those questions, but there was a lot of Muslims even on the street That have to answer and as we saw of that poor six year old boy who was stabbed By his landlord they have to pay for it as well So, I mean I think most people especially when they're not Muslims don't realize the amount of heavy impact that is a lot of my friends after you know all of this happened in [00:35:00] Palestine.
They feel like, and the stabbing in Chicago, they felt like, um, it was 9 12. And most people who are not Muslims don't understand the feeling of 9 12. But after 9 11, and none of us Sympathize with nine 11, but after nine 11 on the day after Muslims were on high alert because they, they felt like that they were going to be attacked for just existing as they are, um, And I, again, I don't, I, especially through the Trump years, I don't know how you stood there teaching and, you know, having to be that public figure that had to go through all of this, but, uh, I can only imagine that.
Now, even now, it must be difficult for everybody, all those who are professional Muslims, academic or not, uh, to have to face this kind of backlash. If you had, like, [00:36:00] any word of suggestion for those who are, um, professional Muslims and for those who are questioning professional Muslims. What would it be?
Yeah, that's a great question. You know, first of all, I have so much admiration and love for the people who still do the work. Like, I quit, you know. I just decided it was too much for me. And the reason why, there's many reasons why it wasn't just for being a professional Muslim. It was also there's some issues in my department and academia.
It wasn't just about teaching Islam, just to make that clear. It was just part of the reason, right? Um, I quit because I decided I wasn't at capacity. I no longer have the capacities to do that kind of work anymore. And I'm doing it a different way. That's more on my terms now. Right. Um, so I quit because now I'm very cognizant of my capacity and the biggest piece of advice I have for people is you need to be on alert at all times for burnout, for signs of burnout, and try to keep yourself as regulated.
As possible and to care for [00:37:00] yourself and to offer yourself as much compassion as possible because we need you so much We need you to keep doing the work keep fighting the fight. It's a really good and honorable fight, you know using your intellect using your Organizing capabilities so many different You're using so many different amazing skills.
You have your creativity. Um, but what I'm noticing right now, for example, during this genocide happening in Gaza is that people are burying themselves out really quickly. And everyone I speak to is dysregulated and they're triggering other people. There's like a shame based culture on social media of saying, if you don't post exactly this, you're like.
You're, you should be ashamed of yourself and this isn't helping anyone, you know, so I think, um, first of all, care for yourself, monitor yourself incredibly closely, make sure you have a therapist, if you need a life coach, um, make sure you have a huge amount of resources around you that you know also how to resource yourself from within, you know, that includes finding different regulation techniques that you, um, that work [00:38:00] for you.
Um, because the only way to survive the long run and to keep on going is to make sure you know what your capacity is and to keep at or below capacity and slowly to expand it, but never to push it. Cause that's when burnout happens. Right. Yeah. And for those who are coming for the professional Muslims, I think that's, that's one of the things that non Muslims don't realize.
Yeah. Y'all got a lot of questions, but. How many of those questions are necessary? So what advice do you have for that has a question? There is a burning curiosity or like a burning misunderstanding How do they come to a professional Muslim? So you just mean the random people in the street who are like, why are you random people are online?
I don't think anybody's gonna come up to anybody. Oh, it always happens. It ever happened to you Wow No, man. I have the RBF. I'm immune to that. I love it. I love it. I do smile a lot. So I don't know about [00:39:00] you, but like, I always had the issue even to random people like, Oh, like they just like come up to me in random context.
Maybe it's a California thing. And just like, Ask me random questions about Islam because of, yeah, like always. And I'm like, of course I'm always on. I'm ready to like be put my professor hat on, you know? So I was always ready for that. And I guess at that time I enjoyed it. Um, but that, that's part of the burnout too.
Like random people coming up on the street. I'm like dang man, I'm just here for coffee. Like, I remember like, you know, I'd be driving. I'm like, okay, make sure. You don't like, you know, do anything bad. Like I like to drive, you know, a little fast on the highway and stuff, make sure like, I'm not cutting anyone off.
Right. Cause then they'll think all Muslims do that. Right. So it's like, be so careful. Right. Um, nowadays, if I want to drive quickly in Turkey, no one cares. I'm just represent all women here.
Um, but yeah, so what's you'd be on the street, but social media is our. Favorite anonymity [00:40:00] platform. You know, you can make a fake profile and then come for someone. So I have a policy about that nowadays. Shehela is basically, I used to try to engage with people in person and really have these thoughtful, deep conversations.
And with my students, those are the people I invested with the most because they were there to learn. But I also invested with a lot of people online. And first of all, like I don't invest with people online who I don't know. Who I don't have a relationship with, uh, who have those kind of questions. I'm like, you know, you can go somewhere else.
I'm not here to answer your Wikipedia questions, you know, like nowadays when people write something that appears just. Silly, hostile, whatever, I would say, and either ignore them, block them if it's, you know, really awful. Um, or else just like, thank you for sharing your opinion, and I just don't have the bandwidth to engage with you, you know, I was, I, I wrote someone on Facebook the other day, a Muslim shared something that was really anti Semitic, and I just like, I said you really should think twice if you want to share this, this is really not the time or place.
It was just awful. It was like [00:41:00] Right, right. It was, yeah, it was terrible. So then she like wanted to say, look at this. She was giving me random quotes that are screenshot. And I was like, come on, like I, my undergrads could do better than this. Like you're a grown woman, you know, I didn't even say that. I was like, I don't have the bandwidth to engage with you, but you should think twice, you know?
So I have a lot, I have what I call very compassionate boundaries now is that I will only engage with people who really, um, who really are asking questions that, you know, I think, I think that I am a good person to answer, and if I could guide them to the right resource. Otherwise, there's other places online, and there's something called Google.
And Sheikh Google is a great resource for information too, you know. I think what you said is key, like, especially for somebody who's a professional Muslim. Not everybody has. Good faith questions. Okay. That's, let's just be honest online. Very few people have good faith questions. Okay. And I mean, like, again, I mean, random, but if somebody came up to me and asked me like a deep.[00:42:00] 
Islamic civilization question, I ain't the person to answer it. Dr. Rose is the person to answer this question. I don't know Jack half the time. So, I mean, I think that's the thing. People can't have the expectation, just like you can't have a regular person expectation, like just because somebody, uh, is Muslim that they would know every single thing about Islam.
That's not how that works. We're just regular people sort of going about our way and, you know, trying to make the best of it. Yeah. Um, Like I remember I used to get questions like I'd give a talk at some like senior citizen home this then like all they remember is like maybe I mentioned care and they say but why why did you mention organization that's sponsored by by Hamas like care referring to care I'm just like like some old white guy I'm like I don't even yeah I don't even know what to say to you like this year you know that kind of stuff is so tiring you know no but I again Even though like those things were in the past, you know, I [00:43:00] appreciate you that you did, you fought the good fight and those like four or five, six years that it was like 12 years.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, that like Muslims really needed somebody. And again, it's only understandable that you're one person, all of this, especially in an atmosphere that can be more often than not very hostile towards. Um, it is a very difficult and taxing job, but, and what you do now is also important. So before I let you go, Dr.
Rose, please let my audience know where they can find you and what you do, um, life coaching, breath work and all. Yeah. Thank you. So talk about what I do. Yeah. So now I, am I a professional Muslim now? No. Now I'm just a person who supports people. Often they happen to be Muslim, but it's not like an Islamic space anymore.
So I don't teach about Islam. I create spaces for Muslims where they can just be human. [00:44:00] So it's almost like the very opposite of what I used to be is like allowing Muslims to be together because there's safety and there's understanding of one another, but they don't have to talk about Islam. But often I do help.
Muslim women, um, reconnect with their spirituality because there's so much religious trauma and abuse. And I've gone through it myself and people struggle with things like prayer with just believing in, in, in various beliefs in Islam or how to grapple through things that are difficult with Islam and how to approach our beautiful religion in a way that makes sense to who we are as people with open minds.
Right. So I do support people in that way, and I'm still grateful for. All my training and background and work with that. So I now do one on one coaching with people Um, I do group program i'm going to start november 1st something called the rahma collective and it's an ongoing membership program for muslim Women who want to be in a space for muslim women, but like I said, it's not islamic space.
This is where we [00:45:00] focus on community gathering, community connections to know that we're not alone. It's for learning different embodiment techniques, including breath work. Um, and it's a space where they can share anything that's on their mind freely without shame, without guilt, which we know is so prevalent among Muslims.
Unfortunately, that's a topic for another time, guilt and shame. Um, and then also life coaching. And so that's an ongoing thing. And, um, and then breathwork all comes in all of that as well. Right. And my website, how can they reach you as a Muslim woman? Because, you know, your service is not just. It's limited to being for women in Turkey.
You, you reach women from all over. Most of the people I work with are in North America, actually, because, you know, that's where I'm from. And that's, most people know me there, so I don't work with that many women here, um, a little bit. Actually, I run some healing circles here in Istanbul, but my. Work is actually mainly online with North America, European women, um, and they can go to [00:46:00] compassionflow.
com is my website, although I haven't updated in a while, it's okay. Um, and then my Instagram account is quite active. It's dr. rose. aslan, um, at symbol. And then also my Facebook, regular Facebook account, they can just follow me there and I post a lot publicly. I'm quite active there for people in that 35 and above, uh, group, those over 35 or below, they're like, what's Facebook?
And then, uh, Facebook, I think, uh, I have a page, Compassion Flow Coaching, too, is the name of my coaching. And they'll be able to see all those links online, uh, on the, uh, screen. Um, but thank you so much, Dr. Rose, for really coming on, especially in a time like this when, you know, um, A lot of people, um, a lot of Muslims especially, do come under target, um, because they have to answer questions that are not necessarily fair.
And it, for us, just being as a minority in a non Muslim country can be, as [00:47:00] you said, it can be emotionally taxing. Um, where you just have to be watchful all the time and especially now it's like watchful times a thousand sort of situation where you're worried all, all the time. Um, I, I think what you have done and what you do now is so incredible.
Just overall, and it's just shifting from a healing in the public sphere to what you do now is healing in a personal sphere so that, you know, Muslims can be a before it was so Muslims can be representative better represented better and now Muslims can heal better from you. All that they go through. So I'm so grateful for what you have done and what you do.
And I'm grateful to everybody who's listened in and watched us on YouTube. Y'all take care of yourself and may peace be on you all. so much.[00:48:00]