Overcoming Trauma and Finding Happiness: A Conversation with Samia Bano

In this podcast episode, I chat with Samia Bano about her spiritual journey and how she overcame childhood sexual abuse to find inner peace and become a peacebuilder in her community. Samia shares how healing came through counseling, connecting with other survivors, and cultivating spiritual practices, including finding solace in prayer.

Reflecting on her faith, Samia explains how she initially embraced a dogmatic approach to Islam but later found peace by embracing pluralism. Her move from Pakistan to the U.S. and college experience helped her develop a more inclusive and open-minded understanding of Islam. We also discuss Samia’s heart-centered approach to navigating diverse Muslim communities, from conservative to progressive spaces.

The episode wraps up with a conversation on the pursuit of happiness and spiritual enlightenment. Samia emphasizes the importance of detachment and practical steps to cultivate lasting happiness. Known for her work as a Happiness Expert, author, and podcaster, Samia uses her signature program, combining positive psychology with spiritual wisdom, to help others overcome limiting beliefs and create a joyful, impactful life. A survivor, Reiki healer, and mental health advocate, Samia is also a bridge-builder between people of different faiths and cultures.

Samia Bano is a Happiness Expert, author, speaker, podcaster, and coach. Known for her book and podcast, Make Change Fun and Easy, Samia guides clients through her signature program, combining positive psychology with spiritual wisdom to overcome limiting beliefs and create a life of impact and joy.

A survivor of child sexual abuse, Samia began her journey toward inner peace at a young age. Samia has an inter-spiritual approach and is a bridge-builder between people of different faiths and cultures. Samia is also a Certified Reiki Healer, Crisis Counselor, and advocate for mental health awareness. 

Find Samia online here:

Website and Youtube Channel

Transcript

Samia Bano
Dr. Rose Aslan: welcome Samano to Rahma Rose. It's absolutely
delight to have you here, especially since I was on your podcast quite a
while ago to talk about kind of subject interesting to me. I think it was
religion and compassion and trauma. so we can learn more about your
life journey.

Samano: Oh, thank you so much for having me, sister Rose.
I'm so happy to join you.
Dr. Rose Aslan: Thank you. shall we start? I always like to start with the
same question to all of my guests. Can you remember when you first
started getting interested in spirituality?
Samano: Yeah, I think consciously speaking it was around when I was
14, 15 years old. And for me, I was going through a very hard time in my
life.
There was a bunch of things happening and thumbs up. My brother had
a major accident and in order to get him treatment, my mom took my
brother and me and my sister and to Pakistan and we were separated
from our father because our dad couldn't join us there in Pakistan. Long
story But you know we were separated from him and then when we got
to Pakistan we didn't know how long we were going to be there.
So for a good year or so I was actually out of school because we kept
thinking oh now we'll be able to go back now we'll be able to go back. In
the middle of all of that, one of the things that started happening for me
at an internal level was that I discovered or I realized or I recognized that
what I had experienced as a child many years ago, was that I'd actually
been sexually abused.
and that happened because when I was in Pakistan at that time, it
actually happened upon a magazine article that was talking about child
sexual abuse. And until I read that article, I never had the language or
the words to say, ah, I'm This is what happened to me, and so all of this
trauma came up, for me and, there was a lot of anger there that I was

dealing with, but also, just, like guilt and shame and, like lots of
confusing emotions going on.
And in the. The middle of all of that is like just feeling very alone and not
knowing where to reach out for help because I felt totally incapable of
actually speaking up or speaking out to any person and asking for help.
That just wasn't possible for me at that time. And so for me, the natural
thing that happened was I was like, okay, please, God help me,
because, I, I have been, born and raised in a Muslim practicing family.
And I would say until up to that time, I certainly. Never considered myself
not Muslim. However, I took my Muslim identity very much for granted,
and I did what I was told to do, but I never really made any conscious
efforts to learn about religion and spirituality and how they were
supposed to help me or how they could help me.
but now when I was. Finding myself in this very difficult time in my life.
this was one of the avenues that just, I felt drawn to.
first of all, I'm so sorry to hear about what you experienced as a child
and that it took reading a magazine article for you to come to that
realization. would you be willing to talk more about like when you started
to pray, like what was it like, as a young woman and your.
Early teens, what was spirituality? What, how did it manifest in your life?
Actually, you said, yeah, there's anger and grief and trauma.
Speaker 2: Yeah.it was the interesting, so one of the reasons I actually,
I think, at least the way that I remember things happening, one of the
ways that I came to this, idea that, oh, maybe religion is the way or
spirituality is the way that I can achieve peace is because one of the
things that I was doing in those days a lot was reading all the time.
Like I couldn't, deal with my emotions, like I needed a way to escape and
my escape was just nose in a book and, so I don't have to think about
my life. And, as a teenager, I was in reading. What's a great philosophy
or anything? I was reading young adult novels and things like that.
but I did happen to come across two biographies that I read that had a
huge impact on me. one was, the diary of Annie Frank, which most
people might have heard of. And,for those of. You may not have heard
about it. It's about a young Jewish teenager during the time of the

second world war when the holocaust was happening and their family
had to go into hiding and, the other book was, Autobiography of Johnny.
I don't remember her last name, but that's what her book is called,
Autobiography of Johnny, and Johnny was also a teenager when she
met with an accident. She had a horseback riding accident, and she
ended up paralyzed from her neck down. And she actually, Johnny is
actually Christian and so I read the biographies of both of these, or a
diary of Annie Frank and the autobiography of Johnny and they both had
this, theme.
Of, reflecting on their own religious and spiritual life and lessons and,
this drawing of strength from the teachings of their religious and spiritual
faith. And even though they experienced very different traumas than
what I did, I still felt a sense of connection to their stories and I felt.
Like in my mind, Oh, if their religious faith and spirituality can help them,
why not mine, And so I was like, okay, I'm going to study more
conscientiously what Islam teaches us and I'm going to do everything
that it tells me. And then, the promise of Islam is.
To lead me to peace. So then I will achieve peace. So with that mindset,
I
Dr. Rose Aslan: like to get from reading the autobiography of a Jewish
girl in the Nazi era and a Christian girl. Like what a conclusion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like why I didn't think, Oh, I should,convert to
Judaism or Islam. I just thought, Oh, I need to deep diaper.
I need to dive deeper into this topic. so I actually ended up becoming
quite dogmatic. In that I became obsessed
Dr. Rose Aslan: with
Speaker 2: learning all the rules and then following them to the T. That's
around when I decided to start wearing a headscarf and I was like, I'm
going to pray five times a day.

I'm going to even do all the sunnah prayers. I'm going to, that's when I
started fasting the entire month of Ramadan I learned so much about
just fiqh and read so many hadith
Dr. Rose Aslan: and Islamic jurisprudence. Yeah,
Speaker 2: yes. And I like it got to a point where I had, I developed a
reputation in my family about oh, you have a question about Islam, ask
Samia.
my aunts and uncles were coming to me because they knew even if I
didn't know the answer, I had the ability to research and find things out,
You were how old at this time? so at this time that I'm talking about
started around 14, 15, until I was almost 18 years old. I was still in
Pakistan and I was going through this stage, basically.
Dr. Rose Aslan: When your older relatives would come to you for
Islamic advice too.
Speaker 2: That's quite impressive. it's very, interesting, isn't it, that, like
at that time I was living in Pakistan where 99 percent or 98 percent of
the population is Muslim. And we only have a 2 percent minority that
claims any other faith tradition.
and even most of the population, they have not read the Quran for
themselves. they, and even so far as they know how to read the
Quran,they think it's only, about, recitation in Arabic. if you're reading a
translation or something, that's not the Quran. And no one really makes
the time to read, not the Quran.
because the time you have to devote to religion and spirituality, you're
going to read the Quran, like in Arabic, because that's what we are told
That's how you get the points that you want, in terms of collecting the,
points to go to heaven and, so forth. So it's very interesting,and then if
you have any questions about, okay, what does Islam say?
You don't know, like you've never actually read books of fiqh or hadith or
things like that, so you ask, and there's a relatively, few people around
you that you are able to ask who have made an effort, so it is what it is.
Dr. Rose Aslan: Very interesting. So at this point, you said until you're
18, you became very dogmatic.

Did you have influence? Where was your influence from in terms of
scholars and these sorts of things?
Speaker 2: Well, a lot of what I was doing was like online. I had bought
a copy of the Quran with English translation. And that was and it had
some commentary, integrated in that translation. It was a big call,
translation in English with some commentary.
And other than that,I was reading a lot online. burp Actually, there is one
or two different websites. One of the websites that I was doing a lot of
my research on is Islami City, where actually my dad By that time, had
ended up moving to America because he was trying to, organize things
so that our whole family could move to America for primarily my brother's
treatment because we weren't making headway in Pakistan.
There was no going back to Dubai, which is where we had been
previously. So anyway, my dad was in America. He was working with
this, Website guys saw me city told me about it. They actually had lots of
resources on there. They had a Q and a,for, they still do actually, which
was actually really, very informative and an easy way to search for
answers for specific questions and things like that.
And then there was a wide variety of other books that I was reading. I
never tried to follow any particular school of thought. I went more by
subject. When a subject interested me, when a question came up that I
was interested in, I was like, okay, let me learn about it from this topical
perspective. So for example, I got one of the questions I was obviously
very interested in is role of women and, rights of women in Islam.
And so it's and my dad actually guided me towards a lot of the books
that I ended up being influenced by. And, My dad happens to have more
liberal progressive meaning. So actually it was interesting that on the
one hand, my mindset was dogmatic, but on the other hand, I was
reading like, based like just earlier today, I noticed that you did an
interview with Amina Wadud.
I was like, yeah, I love Amina Wadud. Hers was like one of the books
that I read and Fatima,BC. Yes. Thank you for pronouncing her name
right, because I always oh gosh, I'm going to mess it up. and they're
fairly, there are many Muslims who are sort of like, scandalized by their
opinions.

But for me, that was one of the introductions into Muslim thought,
especially on women related issues. yeah.
Dr. Rose Aslan: Great. So it sounds like at 18 is that when you moved
to the U. S. you said something changed then and how did that affect,
what happened then? How did that affect your spirituality as a young
woman?
Speaker 2: So at almost 18 is when I moved to, the U. S. and what
happened here was I started college and, going to college in America,
changed my life, for the better. and what happened is that I got exposed
to so much learning beyond just studying religion. and Islam and, like I
was taking classes and all kinds of subjects as required in America in
your first two years of college, especially, where you have to go through
a program of general education and, me, I love, I, every subject that I
took, I can't remember taking a single class that I didn't.
Love taking and, classes in sociology and psychology, anthropology,
even the science, like physics and chemistry and, no matter what
classes I took, I was learning lessons about life and people and behavior
and, for me, it all kept connecting back to religion and spirituality, but
some of the most transformative classes that I took were actually I took
a class in the philosophy of religion.
Oh my god, that was just. amazing. And then, there was a class in, the
history and philosophy of nonviolence that I took. That was also like life
changing. because they gave me, Like the class that I took in the
philosophy of religion, the way our teacher had structured it was, we
spent four months studying different arguments for and against the
existence of God.
And, we studied them from a lot of different, Perspectives, like we
studied logical, rational arguments, but then we studied, other kinds of,
arguments like, Oh, look at the evidence in nature, or not, and
arguments from scripture, like
different scriptures and, the thing that the first time I was introduced to,
it's interesting, I never, was, mystical thought and philosophy,
because,like learning that perspective in terms of, and actually that was
my first, I would say, significant introduction to a more spiritual approach
rather than scripture based religion approach.

When I got introduced to the, yeah, the mystical, perspective, and
obviously in our class, we were studying it from the perspective of, what
does it teach us in terms of arguments for and against the existence of
God, but it stretched my thinking and stretched my mind and forced me
to think about things that come and grapple with, like for example, it
turns out that the argument from scripture, which, you know, Oh, I
believe in God because this is what I learned from the Quran.
This is what the Quran says or the Bible says. It's actually one of the
weakest arguments ever for believing in God because it's circular. it's if
you believe that. The Qur'an is the holy book. Then I, and then you say, I
believe what the, what it says in the Qur'an, but it's like, what's your
basis of believing in the Qur'an that it's a holy book, that it's a divine
revelation.
It's all so circular. It's a terrible argument.
Dr. Rose Aslan: How interesting that it was learning about religion,
philosophy in a secular American university helps you deepen your
spirituality.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And also especially when it comes to, now I have a
very social justice orientation in how I live my faith.
And, that was also something that I came to really, practice. Yes. On as
a student on college and campus life, because I got the opportunity to
get involved with so many clubs on campus and volunteer for so many
different things. And I found so much joy. It was just like, when I was in
Pakistan and for me, reading, all the time was the way I escaped, but
that kept me isolated.
and here I was like, spending, I would some, most of the days I would
reach campus around 9, 9. 30 and I'd be on campus until 10 at night and
I was like, Either taking classes, doing my homework, of course, but also
going to so many different clubs and volunteering for this, that, this, that,
and at some levels I was definitely still trying to escape.
but the interesting thing was that because now I was, with all the
volunteering and stuff, it was like getting me, mixed up with people. Like
I had to talk to people and work with people, things like that. It was, so it
was starting to take me out of that sense of being so alone and isolated.
And I found so much meaning and joy and peace in doing what I could

to help Other people,and, for me, every time now, and then when I
would open the Quran, it's it just popped out to me how much the Quran
advocates for us to, speak up against wrong and do good and, to
engage in social justice work and action taking.
And It was definitely going to college in America that, that helps me and
enabled me and inspired me to take that approach to living my faith and
spirituality.
Dr. Rose Aslan: Beautiful. Thank you for sharing. And as a former
college professor, I love hearing how much college can have an impact
on people, and expanding people's minds and approaches.
So question for you, and this is based on my experience. knowledge of
you since we know each other from when I used to live in Los Angeles
and we ran in many of the same Muslim circles and communities and
activities. So I remember what was especially unique or what is
especially unique about you is you would be equally comfortable,
running activities for a very conservative mosque in Los Angeles as you
were running a circle for the most progressive Muslims who are
progressive values circle, right?
Very different. approaches to Islam. Very different people involved in
this. Tell me more about this. Tell me more about the Samya who can
find herself comfortable in really any setting, and also your very big
interfaith as well. So how did you come to this place, and what does it
mean to you and your spirituality and your understanding of Islam to sit
with all these very different people in a way that most people don't do?
Speaker 2: Um, so I definitely going to college in America, I was forced
to, drop my dogmatic approach to religion. it just didn't stand up to the
intellectual rigor, but also, the thing was that I, I was continuing to learn
like one of my huge focuses throughout my college life, which by the
way, I took my time graduating.
I took six years to get through college.and so one of my big focuses
throughout that time was, to learn everything that I could about healing.
And I was a psychology major, but interestingly, some of the most
important lessons that I learned about healing and how to actually
experience peace in my life didn't come from my psychology classes.

not to disparage psychology, but,one of the most important lessons that
I have learned in my life, and it definitely started for me in college is
learning to, look at different perspectives, and really try to find the merit
in the different perspectives and,you come to realize that.
Wow. There usually is some merit in any given perspective on any given
issue. no one. I don't think that's everything right, but everyone has
some insight that's really valuable. And what I found was that my mind
actually loves to put things together and find connections and so the
more diverse set of ideas that I was getting exposed to, the more
exciting I found it to find, the connections and to find what I found
valuable.
in each of those different perspectives and just create my own,
something from out of that. and that's just the way that my mind seems
to love to work. So that's what I do. And
when it comes to moving in different Muslim sub communities, where
they have different orientations and beliefs, it really is about, as a
Muslim, As a spiritual person, as a religious person, I have different
needs and I went seeking for different spaces because there was no one
space that I found that fulfills all the needs that I had, and, and the thing
is that whenever I go into a space, I do my best to go with a mindset of
loving.
The people that I find there as they are, so without having any conditions
of. You must change for me, or you must be already in alignment with
how I think and am for me to be with you or to love you. And for
example, when I go to the conservative mosque and I don't get involved
with everything that they do there, But there are things like there is a
focus on prayer and ritual that oftentimes you don't find in the more
liberal progressive spaces.
And so in so far as I really value that, ritual, aspect of our faith tradition
and our practices, like I've come to really enjoy praying in congregation.
that's a wonderful, beautiful space to be in and, you connect with human
beings over there. You learn about the struggles that they're going
through and you find so much that you can work on.
I was working at the conservative mosque. Yeah, I was,I jumped into,
helping with the youth group and my gosh, Our young people, they're
struggling with so many issues and I could relate to them. And, it's like

really sweet. Every once in a while, you know, I'd get one time there was
a kid who was having some problems with one of the other adults who
was in charge of the youth group.
And, I was trying to calm him down because, and he said, Oh, sorry.
But,this other lady, sister, I don't know what was the exact words he
used, I can't remember the exact words he used, but the way I
remember it was basically he was like, but she's not like you, she doesn't
know how to be with us and treat us like you.
I was like, aw. so it's just you find things that are meaningful, and in the
same way when I go to, for example, Muslims with Progressive Values,
they had that social justice y orientation that I so loved and, Craved and
they're also, they had like other things and also again, you get to know
people.
forget about where you disagree. You are not disagree with. the religious
interpretations of this and that, but you just get to know the people. And
again, you find, oh, there's people who are struggling, who are suffering,
and there's so much you can do to step up and help out where you can.
and it's not just about.
Helping struggling people, other struggling people, but to allow yourself
to receive help in the ways that you need help and care and guidance,
so to allow them to love you back. and just focusing on the common
ground and you can find common ground wherever you go. You just
have to have that, value.
Dr. Rose Aslan: I think that's a very unique thing about you, Samia, that
most people aren't willing to go into communities that they might not
necessarily agree on all the points with. So I commend you on that. So
thank you for sharing that. you mentioned that in college is when you
began your healing journey, perhaps it sounds Tell me more about that.
And I'm assuming it's a lifelong process. What is your healing journey
been like, especially because of what you revealed to us about your
childhood experience? so much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I would say, healing journey was going on all
along, but I didn't realize that,because even like when I was, a younger
person than even 14 years old and I realized, oh, I've been sexually
abused, I mean, because I was not being abused at that time, it's been
thankfully many years since I'd actually experienced that. but I was in a

stage of. denial suppression, but, even though I was in that stage, that is
a stage in the healing process in itself. and then the, all the anger stays
that I went through.
It was mostly when I was in Pakistan, that was actually a stage of the
healing process too. but what happened is. In America, again in college,
I actually found, other than, me trying to help myself through reading
whatever I could or becoming more religious, I actually found avenues
for help and support.
the first person I ever told, about the fact that I was abused and Reach
out for help in that very specific context was a counselor, a therapist on
campus at the student psychological services center, and I was like, I tell
you, I think to this day, I, that's the bravest thing I have done in my life
because I was just so scared.
I actually, I went and I did research. I was like. Afraid even then of
anyone in my family, especially finding out about what I had
experienced. So I actually did research, even when I was in the session,
I was like, okay, tell me if whatever I tell you. Is this going to be
confidential?
And I even gave her hypotheticals of if this was true, if that was true,
would you then tell my parents? Or would you be like,no, none of that,
no, it'll all stay confidential. So once, I went through and I had gone with
a whole backup plan of if it turns out that it wouldn't be kept confidential,
then I had this whole other story.
I, You know that I would give her that story and just get out of there.
Dr. Rose Aslan: Yeah,
Speaker 2: but oh my gosh. So I just remember stepping out of that
session, just having told her, we hadn't even done a whole lot. It was
that first session, but I remember stepping out of there and I felt like I
was floating.
like this, just even that one session, it was like, whoo, like some, I felt so
light, like some huge burden had been lifted off my heart and soul and I
didn't even realize I was scaring it. I did, but I didn't, it was just life
changing to, to just ask for help, to just. say that this is what happened to

me and I can't handle it on my own anymore, and then there were other
really amazing resources on campus.
Also, there's this,club, it's called the clothesline project and their whole
mission is to actually foster, Education and understanding and, about
issues of sexual assault and abuse and to give survivors a space,to
come in and connect with each other and support each other. And,it's
primarily, I think, a college campus.
organization like, they, they open chapters on various college campuses.
And,that was my first time connecting with other survivors, hearing other
survivors stories. And, it just gives you this real sense of, I'm not alone.
I'm not alone. And that's so huge, because. For all of this time, I felt so
alone.
And so,there were like so many cures that I was finding to this, feeling of
being alone on campus. And it was so hugely healing. And,so that was,a
huge part of what really helped me. And then I actually did training also
through the clothesline project and how to do advocacy, for survivors
and victims of sexual assault and abuse.
it was a beautiful training to go through, but, again, it allowed me to tap
into. So not just. make it all about me, I need help and healing, but to do
something to support other survivors and, again, that felt so empowering
and so healing. And so I actually took that work further after I graduated
from, college, I actually went and for four years I was working on a crisis
hotline at a sexual assault and domestic violence agency.
And. just going through the training that I had to for being a crisis
counselor, it gives me amazing,skills and tools in terms of listening with
more empathy and compassion and managing my own emotions,
especially in. fraught situations because that was something that I had
continued to be afraid of, like I didn't feel confident about being able to
handle my own emotions, especially in emotionally fraught situations.
And so I actually made myself go through that crisis counseling training
because I was like, this will teach me how to handle that. and, It sure
did. So that was a huge one also. And that was also, by the way, a very
scary thing that I made myself do, but it turned out once I got into it, it
turned out to be easier than I had expected.

Dr. Rose Aslan: It sounds like you really jump headfirst into places and
things that you want to learn more about and expose yourself to. So it
sounds like you've taken some very brave first steps that really have
paid out too.
Speaker 2: yeah. All with the mission of, first of all, becoming more.
peaceful myself because I'm like, I want to live peace.
I'm done with suffering. I don't want to suffer anymore. So,wherever I
can go, wherever I was guided in terms of, learn this is one of the pieces
of the puzzle for how you get to live peace. It's all for the learning, and
applying the learning. I think that I've always been a good student in that
way that what I learn, I do my best to apply.
So even when I became dogmatic, it was, with that mission that I wanted
to really apply and not just,be theoretically reading and learning stuff, but
then not applying. yeah.
Dr. Rose Aslan: so since you're on this path of applying the teachings
that you've received from people. Nowadays, you say you want to live a
life without suffering.
How do you do that in terms of what's in your tool back toolbox, sorry.
And when you go through difficult times when you're feeling down or
whatnot. What do you pull out of the toolbox?
Speaker 2: so there are lots of different tools.
Dr. Rose Aslan: That's awesome. great to have a big toolbox.
Speaker 2: indeed.
So I would say there's two main big categories of tools that I try to pull
out from. One has to do with like mind, bringing the mind under control.
That's awesome. Kind of tools,you know, our mind, is actually the source
of a lot of our suffering in terms of, it's thinking it, it's holding the beliefs
and thinking the thoughts that cause the feelings of suffering and hurt,
pain, whatever that we're experiencing and that keep us feeling trapped
and so forth.
It's like, how do you calm the mind down? How do you begin to manage
your mind?one of the most important tools there is just watching your

thoughts, catching the negative ones, that are making you feel bad, and
then transforming them, replacing them with more positive thoughts. And
this actually is not the easiest thing to do.
Yeah, it can be really hard, but it's a practice that you can learn and the
more you practice it, the easier it gets. Andone of the practices that I
developed in terms of in this context was actually doing a lot of zikr
because, what, so remembrance
Dr. Rose Aslan: of
Speaker 2: God, and yes, remembrance of God, but it's like, repeat,
repeat a single prayer or phrase or thought and, so to, to learn to focus
on repeating that one thought or prayer or whatever that you have
chosen.
it's a skill, but it helps you to train your brain. To think the thoughts that
you want to think, and actually it was very interesting. My favorite, prayer
to keep,doing over and over again was the recitation of the fatiha. And,
and interestingly, what at first I used to do it in Arabic, but then I started
doing it in English.
So I had memorized an English translation that I really love. And, I
started, doing, the Aspie as it's called, like using prayer beads so that
you can, just do it on repeat and I didn't really count, didn't really care to
count how much I was doing, but the physical act of having those beads.
it's like physically it gives you an anchor as well. that's helpful in its own
way. So that's one thing. It's choosing positive thoughts and training your
brain to think the positive thoughts that you actually find helpful and want
to think rather than allowing your brain to run wild and thinking whatever
thoughts.
It's Triggered into thinking,and that are not very happiness and peace
promoting. So that's a mind related tool that I findvery helpful to, to use
even now, when I start to find myself, losing my sense of peace, and
oftentimes I need to do that first. Because if my mind, if I'm not able to
have my mind be focused, it's very difficult for me to, even think about
other steps, to take.
So sometimes, a lot of times, actually, that's where I start. And then the
next tools actually, this prayer. and I don't do so much of the ritual prayer

like Muslims. in terms of, and you stand up for ritual prayer and you do
that. I do more like heart based prayer, just connecting with my spiritual
heart as I've come to, understand and relate to it and know it.
And, wow. As soon as I'm able to just connect with my heart,
peace, because, our hearts are our source of peace. So the moment you
find that awareness and that connection with your heart, all of the mind
frag goes away. That's, and it's immediate, that experience of peace is
immediate. And then it is just a matter of, Like just, holding space there,
and that's where, when you're in your heart space and you pray from
your heart,
most of the time it's like very simple. It's again, going back to the fatiha,
it's not just a prayer, it's also a practice. a guidance in itself on how to
help yourself when, when you're facing any kind of struggle. And,I think
because I spent so much time, just doing tazbih with the Fatiha, I feel
like in some ways I internalized,a lot of the learning.
there's always room to go deeper. And I actually feel so amazed every
so often I have another insight. I'm like, wow. And it's all still relating to
the Fatiha and the,the wisdom of the Fatiha and what it's showing us in
terms of how to achieve, peace and get the help and support that we
need.
and so it's, it's a prayer, but the prayer coming from the heart, and you
realize more and more that you don't have to figure it out. Like I don't
have to figure it out. Allah shows me the way, like one step at a time.
Sometimes. I'm when I'm in my impatient mood. I'm like god, please just
show me The whole plan and I want to know where this is taking me
what where I'm heading but sometimes it's just not take this one little
step Just take this one little step and when you take that one little step
Then you're shown the next little step Yeah.
Dick. and so sometimes in my impatience, I'm a little bit like, no, I want
to know, I want to know the plan. But, it's okay, it's okay. Just take the
one little step. And so then I don't, so then it's okay, don't have to figure
it out. Allah is showing me the way. Just take the little step.
Dr. Rose Aslan: that's beautiful. Thank you for sharing some of these
most important practices, especially you're being grounded in Islamic
practice. It sounds like you've really developed a healthy, relationship

and approach to Islamic ritual that some Muslims still struggle with. So
it's really nice to hear how you find your grounding and your bearing in
the practices.
So as we wrap up, I'd like to ask, and I ask all my guests, what are some
pearls of wisdom you'd like to share with Listeners to this podcast, of
your life journey. What would you like people to know or learn or take
away?
Speaker 2: I think one of the things that really carried me through. My
journey continues to carry me through, and I personally found this really
motivating is to know what is possible in terms of living peace and joy
and happiness because,most people are,
their experience of peace and happiness and joy in, in life. Is that it's like
a very up and down journey, it's like a roller coaster, emotional roller
coaster and most of the time, for example, this is a stat I learned in my
psychology, education, if you ask most people, like, how happy are you?
On a scale of 1 to 10, most people are somewhere between 6 to 8,
which means they're not really depressed, but they're also not really
happy in the sense that,there's time when they're happy, and then
there's times when they're struggling, and they're not really in control of
their happiness, and most of the time, the best they feel is like that 8.
Or that's the best they feel like they can even maintain. But, when I was
taking classes, the first time, as I mentioned, I got introduced to mystical
perspectives and thoughts was in that religion, Philosophy of religion
class, but then I took a late a few years later. I took another class still in
college on Buddhist meditation philosophy, but this philosophy by the
way, is basically a mystical approach and so that's when I got even more
of became even more aware of, The mystical perspectives and so forth.
And in the context of Buddhist mystical philosophy, we learned about the
concept of nirvana and achieving enlightenment and the state of being
where, you experience absolute peace and joy. it's you're not dead.
you're conscious, you're alive, but, you're experiencing pure joy, pure
peace.
And,and you have this awareness of the divine that,and you can
experience the divinity in everything that is when you interact through

that consciousness. And so for me, that was such a beautiful, it's I want
that I want to, experience that awareness and that peace and that joy.
And at first, it was just because, again, I was trying to escape my
suffering. But interestingly, one of the very important lessons. That you
learn is that if you truly want to achieve nirvana and enlightenment, you
have to learn to let go of your attachment to everything, including your.
Need and desire to achieve Nirvana or enlightenment. And in any case,
that's, another big lesson to learn in life. But the point was that I was
learning about people and experiences where. it showed me that it's
possible for us to escape this kind of roller coaster existence. It's
possible for us to rise above this mediocrity of experience when it comes
to our happiness and peace where we're stuck somewhere between six
and eight if we are lucky and we're not actually depressed and things
like that.
And it gave me something higher to aim for. And so for me, I was like, I
might not be there yet, but I'm aiming for it. It's possible. And so it kept, it
keeps me motivated to, to continue the journey of learning more and
practicing better and, things like that. So I'll stop there.
Dr. Rose Aslan: Very rich.
Thank you. really appreciate this conversation. Sam. Yeah. I've
benefited a lot and I hope our listeners do too. Now you call yourself the
happiness coach. if people are interested in working with you, they want
to learn more about your work. Where can we find you? Tell us like in 30
seconds, what you do and how to where they can approach you.
Speaker 2: sure. So I'm not just a happiness coach. I do claim myself to
be a happiness expert, not just because I have lots of theoretical
knowledge of how to be happy, but because I practice living happiness
every day. And, I'm so happy. It makes me so happy to help other
people, Also learn how to be happy and share what I know and support
them in their own quest to be more happy.
And the way you can find me, I think the most fun and easy way is to
actually check out my podcast. It's called Make Change Fun and Easy.
And you can just go to make change find and easy.com
Dr. Rose Aslan: Very easy website too.

Speaker 2: Yes. And so you can check out my podcast. You can learn,
more, from me on there, but also about me on the website and more
about how you can connect with me from there too.
Dr. Rose Aslan: Excellent. Thank you. And your website and any links
you share with me will be also in the show notes. Thank you so much,
Samia. This was a delight. to speak with you. I feel happier just by
speaking with you because your happiness really is infectious. So thank
you for sharing with me and for everyone who's listening.
Take care.